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21 May 2006, 11:49 am
peebo wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
If humans stuck together then yes they could create a wonderland, however, they do not naturally stick together like snowflakes do.
by their true nature, humans may stick yogether more than we would currently believe. the increase of civilisation, and advent of money economies however drives people apart. here is an interesting quote from robert anton wilson's prometheus rising, which might provoke some thought on the matter:
robert anton wilson wrote:
As civilisation has advanced, the pack-bond (the tribe, the extended family) has been broken. This is the root of the widely diagnosed "anomie" or "alienation" or "existential anguish" about which so many social critics have written so eloquently. What has happened is that the conditioning of the bio-survival bond to the gene-pool has been replaced by a conditioning of bio-survival drives to hook onto the peculiar tickets which we call "money"
Concretely, a modern man or woman doesn't look for bio-survival security in the gene-pool, the pack, the extended family. Bio-survival depends on getting the tickets. "You can't live wothout money", as the Living Theatre troop used to cry out in anguish. If the tickets are withdrawn, acute bio-survival anxiety appears at once.
Imagine, as vividly as possible, what you would feel, and what you would do, if all your sources to bio-survival tickets (money) were cut off tomorrow. This is precisley what tribal men and women feel if cut off frfom the tribe; it is why exile, or even ostracism, were sufficient punishments to enforce tribalconformity throughout most of human history. As recently as Shakespeare's day the threat of exile was an acute terror signal ("Banished" cries Romeo, "the damned use that word in Hell!"...
Real bonding can only occur in face-to-face groups of reasonable size. Hence, the perpetual attempt (however implausible in industrial circumstances) to decentralise, to go back to the tribal ethos, to replace the State with syndicates(as in anarchism) or affinity-groups (Reich's "Conciousness III"
Concretely, a modern man or woman doesn't look for bio-survival security in the gene-pool, the pack, the extended family. Bio-survival depends on getting the tickets. "You can't live wothout money", as the Living Theatre troop used to cry out in anguish. If the tickets are withdrawn, acute bio-survival anxiety appears at once.
Imagine, as vividly as possible, what you would feel, and what you would do, if all your sources to bio-survival tickets (money) were cut off tomorrow. This is precisley what tribal men and women feel if cut off frfom the tribe; it is why exile, or even ostracism, were sufficient punishments to enforce tribalconformity throughout most of human history. As recently as Shakespeare's day the threat of exile was an acute terror signal ("Banished" cries Romeo, "the damned use that word in Hell!"...
Real bonding can only occur in face-to-face groups of reasonable size. Hence, the perpetual attempt (however implausible in industrial circumstances) to decentralise, to go back to the tribal ethos, to replace the State with syndicates(as in anarchism) or affinity-groups (Reich's "Conciousness III"
so in effect, our instinctual survival drive, which used to rely on interpersonal bonding for survival, has now been attached to the attainment of the "bio-survival tickets", as wilson would say, or money.
The rise of moneys and civilizations is good for mankind's bonding in a large society, in fact, those forces allow more bonding than could exist otherwise. I mean, your quote said it right here, "Real bonding can only occur in face-to-face groups of reasonable size.", cities are not what we would call reasonable sizes, neither are nations. Without money and civilization, we would not even bother bonding this much but snowflakes to the best of my knowledge do not have maximum bonding sizes, and as such could theoretically cover the globe and still be able to bond together somewhat. Money and civilization exist because they benefit those who have money and civilization. Peoples without money and civilization are easily dominated by people with money and civilization. Anyway, nobody disputes the ability of communes to bind together but nobody thinks that cities have the same ability to bind. Larger societies have more bonds and weaker ones than smaller groups and now I do not know what I am getting at....
Iammeandnooneelse wrote:
Philosphy 3: How do we know anything really exists?
We don't. I mean, we might be able to prove that something exists though because thinking means that thought exists(we do not know whose thought though, Descartes could have been a creation of the thoughts of somebody else for all we know or even he knows). However, beyond the existence of thought there is no proof of anything. Reality could be a farce driven by one being with the ability to think, is there anything prove that I am not somebody's imaginary friend? Heck, the monotheist's idea of God could be this one thinker or something. I don't really know. But anyway, for my own sanity's sake I assume that this is not one big fantasy land because that would drive me up the wall.
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