The whole "Family Thing" is a joke to me.

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ryansjoy
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03 Jul 2006, 8:45 pm

That's very deep. Thank you for the Insight. 8)[/quote]

you are very welcome..i do hope that some of you might see how hard parents TRY.. even if you are across the pond as you are I know we all have parental instincts. FYI my dream is one day to come across the pond and see what is over there..

I need to explain.... as i do with my son so much because I do forget that the aspie in him does not always understand the strange way his mom talks.. across the pond is from the state to the UK... one of my best buds on line is from across the pond..

see even as a parent i know at times I need to talk to my son on his level and not use any slang, or silly jokes in between.. its white or black for him.....no gray matter!! !



Aspie1
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04 Jul 2006, 2:00 pm

I'll separete different parts of the quotes post into different lines, and address them one by one.

ryansjoy wrote:
-> What you think is uncaring might not be. I would never want my son to feel this way. I lay awake at night thinking of how I can relate to my son better.
-> I feel its pretty sad that if you don't have a bond with your own family you can hang up having one with others. You might complain that you have no friends but your best friends are your family who give up their life for you.
-> I try never to change my son but to let him be what he needs to be to feel comfortable. Yes I make him do things he does not want to do. But thats life and thats a lesson in life. Get over it.
-> As a parent I do family things with my family.
-> Basically I say that some of you have great familes who try like heck to understand you. But at times you make it very hard for us to understand. Its a 2 way street!
-> Yes he is a challange but a mother loves her child no matter what!

<sarcasm>Thank you, Oprah Winfrey.</sarcasm> :roll: :roll: :roll:
I completely disagree with this post. Now, to address each part, so I can objectively explain how.

"What you think is uncaring..." - If you don't want your son to feel like you don't care, try to find ways to show him how you do care. And please, explain it in a way that doesn't sound like an excuse you use just because you can. The worst possible explanation is "I'm doing this because I love you"; it gives children the idea that love equals punishment.
"I feel it's pretty sad..." - Why do biological connections have to equal friendships for life? Making a family can take as short as a few minutes. Raising a family takes work, and a lot of it. If parents don't find ways to build loving bonds with their children, the children won't have any bonds to feel. And most imporantly, family can never be the same as friends. Like it or not, families control children's lives; friends don't, or at least not in ways that make children feel controlled.
"I try never to change my son..." - You said you make him do things he doesn't want to do. You also said that's a lesson in life. Is it really? Tell me what kids think of being told to go to bed when they don't want to, yet seeing their parents go to bed when they choose to?
"As a parent..." - This part seems fine. As long as, for instance, the kids spend hours at a museum seeing the exhibits their parents want to see, only to find out that there's to time to see what the kids want to see. In other words, as long as family fun doesn't equal parents' fun.
"Basically I say that..." - If the parents are truly trying to understand aspie kids, they they shouldn't punish them for not making it easy to understand them. And show that they're trying, not just say it.
"Yes he is a challange..." - Again, the parents must show that they love their child, not just say it. And how would a child reconcile the concept of parents' love and being punished for something he/she doesn't even know did wrong?

If it seems like was I attacking you, I sincerely apoligize. It's just that the post seemed too idealistic, with strong Oprah-ish overtones, and that just struck a nerve. Aspie kids find out about the harsh reality of life a lot earlier than NT kids, and therefore would not agree with most of these things. I sure didn't, and I pointed out how; hopefully, it sounded at least somewhat objective.



bigsister84
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06 Jul 2006, 12:51 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
I always viewed the concept of "family togetherness" as something utterly impossible. My relationship with my parents has always been bad, almost like a game of "who can outsmart whom?" (For me, outsmarting my parents consisted of "good behavior" that doesn't give them a reason to punish me; for my parents outsmarting me consisted of finding ways to punish me for the smallest infraction.) Anyway, when I heard phrases like "spending time together as a family," "quality time," and "having fun with family," I always cringed at how miserable kids my be during these things. For me, "family togetherness" usually consisted of one of these things:

:arrow: My family goes to a museum. We end up seeing mostly the exhibits my parents want to see. My suggestions usually get brushed off on the spot. If my parents agree to them, the reaction is far from pleasant.
:arrow: My family goes driving somewhere I wanted to go. They complain about how hard it is to get there, and how they wish they haven't agreed to it. When I ask to stop to eat somewhere, they yell at me for eating too much.
:arrow: My family goes to a restaurant. Throughout the entire meal, my parents keep telling me not to eat to much, eat more slowly, etc. Ironically, that makes me do the opposite.
:arrow: My family watches a movie at home. My parents yell at me to sit still and be quiet so they can watch the movie. Comments or questions about specific scenes are strictly forbidden. Violations result in getting sent to my room.
:arrow: My family drives to explore another town. They have an intinerary in mind, and nothing stops them for following it. When I ask if we can go to an amusement park on the way for an hour or so, they yell at the that I only think about myself.
:arrow: My family stays home together on a regular night. Either yelling and punishments go flying in all directions, or everyone does their own thing, barely saying more than a few words to each other.

Is it any surprise that I believe that words "fun" and "family" don't even belong in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence. When I was at the Western Wall six months ago, I swore to God that I would never subject my kids to this kind of "family togetherness" under any circumstances. Then again, my future wife might not have the same dedication. So the notion of having a family seems unsettling at best.


hmmm...I see you use the word "yell" very often up here..
either you have a really cruel family, or you tend to overreact, and only see the whole picture from your angle..
I know people whit AS has a tendens to that and ogten overreact.



CockneyRebel
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12 Aug 2006, 1:42 am

I feel like a Forigner in my own House. My Mom uses Humour and Slang that I don't understand. My Dad thinks that I'm more Autistic than I really am, so he treats me the same sh***y way that he did, when I was Four. I've had to draw the line, on Monday Evening, when my Dad kept on telling me that my locking him out was not a big deal, and than he slowed his words down and raised his voice a notch, and I was sick of dealing with that, year after year, so I've cut in and said, "Everything's Cool." and walked off into my Room.

Today, my Mom was on my case about the fact that my Dog, Chico found a Baby Soother on his Walk and that he ate the Nipple. She was treating me like I was a ret*d, nagging me to no end, and I've ended up feeling sick to my Stomach, but I didn't Vomit. And than she was talking to me like a Valley Girl, in the Grocery Store and that made me feel even more Nauseated. I've just told her that I wasn't feeling very well, and I've had the Trotts for a Week and a Half, already.

I get along more with my Dog, than I do the rest of my Family. At least Chico knows me as I really am. As a dignified, well-bread Individual with Class and Brains.

All that I feel that I care about, are This Site, my Dog, my Buses and Myself and some Non-Family Members. If I won the Lotto 6/49 Tomorrow Night, I'd leave. My Family causes me nothing but Grief. I have a Member of my Chosen Family on my Night Dresser. She will ease my Mind and remind me of London's Happier Days, as I drift off into my Slumber. It works even better with the Downstairs Bathroom Light on, because I can see the Red shine of her Body.



rhubarbpluscustard
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12 Aug 2006, 12:01 pm

My own family has shown me that blood ties don't necessarily mean much. My father left before I was born and has never been around much in my life; although he's my blood father he's not my father in any psychological or practical sense. My step-brother has been raised by my father from the age of four, so although he's not my father's blood son he is his son psychologically and practically speaking.

That being said, I am fond of my two younger half-siblings, though I wouldn't say I love them, and I enjoy seeing the family resemblances, physical and otherwise, between us. I also love my mother very much, and we are very close.

But then there's my extended family. There is a lot of them, and they have been around quite a bit while I've been growing up. I care about them in a way, but I don't love them and don't see why I should be expected to. There are certain family obligations- Christmas cards, birthday wishes etc.- that I know I must fulfil and don't mind fulfilling, but apart from that I don't want to have much to do with my extended family. If they weren't my family I don't think I would like any of them as people.



KimJ
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12 Aug 2006, 12:54 pm

As both a parent of a HFA and probably on the spectrum myself, I totally disagree with ryansjoy's admonishment. A lot of the parental behaviors described here are emotionally abusive and at the very least hypocritical and selfish. I was adopted by extreme NT's, very intolerant, uneducated and Sunday Christians. They criticized just about everything I did, especially my father. He would get angry if I were frowning and then accuse me of being up to something if I were smiling. See, I didn't react the "appropriate" way to jokes or stories all the time and I often was lost in thought so my facial expressions differed from others. I am very physically awkward, an extreme right-hand dominance and it's very hard to do things with both hands-my dad would say I was deliberately making something difficult that was easy. It was the accusations that drove me over the edge.
One of the really big wedges between my folks and me happened when I got bullied at school in 2nd grade. I actually blocked a lot out and wonder if something else happened to me. Anyhow, I came home and cried about whatever happened and my parents didn't act concerned. I learned that I couldn't trust my parents with my feelings. I couldn't trust them to support me. Again, I don't remember everything but it interfered with going to Church as some of the bullies were upstanding Church members.
These things are devastating to a child in their socially formative years.
But for some reason, it's my fault. My parents also "tried their hardest" to "understand" me. But I "just wouldn't open up". I stopped sharing my feelings.
I do a lot of activities "just for my son". He wants to go swimming so I take him and spend time with him. If I want to go to a store and I don't want to make a side trip, I explain, "this is for _____, we're not going to the video store too". Other times, we share trips, "I"m going to the mall, there's a video store, you can spend ____ time to look at games". We don't make family trips unless we all get something out of it. I don't take him to Chinese food because he won't eat it.
These are strong beliefs I have based on the lack of consideration my husband and I got from our families. (his story is much worse than mine)



ryansjoy
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14 Aug 2006, 8:03 pm

KimJ wrote:
As both a parent of a HFA and probably on the spectrum myself, I totally disagree with ryansjoy's admonishment. A lot of the parental behaviors described here are emotionally abusive and at the very least hypocritical and selfish. lack of consideration my husband and I got from our families. (his story is much worse than mine)


from what I said you can call me this.. emotionally abusive? hypocritical and selfish? I can not understand from what I said that you can call me this. how can you consider me emotionally abusive? by standing up for my son. fighting with the schools to get him services that they would never give me unless I fought. SO what Am i supposed to do.. let my son walk all over me and be passive because I at times might make my son do homework he does not want to do.. or clean his room.. I have not and never will be emotionally abusive to anyone in my family. my children are my life and world. we chose a simpler life for the sake of raising 2 children. i did not know that would be considered abusive. or better yet selfish... I guess I am clueless because you think that I am selfish.. ask me the last time I bought something for myself... ask how many times I have endured Buger King for my son.. .just because he likes to go there and have a family night out. how we refuse to put him in social place that he does not feel comfortable in.. I can not imagine that you can say things about me when you don't know me.. MY post said nothing about being emotionally abusive to Ryan and I would never allow anyone to do so.. I would never ever say this about you or your family unless I knew you personally..

the age old if you don't have anything good to say then don't say it.. don't rip me up and call me abusive..
.



KenM
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14 Aug 2006, 8:35 pm

I don't get the whole "family thing" myself. I just don't feel anything towards my Mom or anyone close. My Mom says she loves me and all, but i don't see it. She is suposted to say she loves me because she is my mom.



KimJ
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14 Aug 2006, 9:55 pm

Ryan'sjoy, please reread my message. Nowhere do I make any accusation like that. Like you said, I don't know you at all. Please don't "rip me up" because you don't understand what I've written.
I disagreed with your "admonishment". There are some people here complaining about and relating their feelings about their families. You came on and basically told them they were probably wrong because of their AS traits. You seem very defensive at the same time, accusative and cold ("Get over it")
That's what I disagree with. They were describing behaviors that seem to me as abusive. You came to say they were wrong.

My post wasn't about you, I don't know why or how you would turn it all around and make it about yourself. I was clear about what I disagreed with and then moved on to my description of my own parents. Perhaps it makes you uneasy that parents are the subject of complaint. But they are a large part of our development and identity.



Anna
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14 Aug 2006, 11:46 pm

ryansjoy wrote:
i post this as a parent of a child with AS. its sad that so many of you feel this way about your family. I know an AS trait is to be rigid and not see anything in between. What you think is uncaring might not be. I would never want my son to feel this way. I lay awake at night thinking of how I can relate to my son better. Try to put yourself in a lot of parents shoes.


As a mother to an aspie (and to an NT) who is an aspie myself, I say bollocks.

Quote:
Its hard to raise children in general. its even harding raising a child of special needs. maybe what you see as them not wanting to do what you want might be beacuse you feel that its your way or no way at all. We try hard to please everyone and take crap from everyone along the way. We fought like hell to make people understand that you have AS.


Some parents do that. Some parents spend their time blaming their kids for everything or are too busy playing martyr to figure out that the kids might maybe want an *explanation* rather than an excuse!

Don't have the money to stop at an amusement park? Don't blame it on the kid - say out loud "we don't have enough money" and deal with your damn guilt on your own time. DOn't take it out on the kid (which is what far too many parents of aspies do).


Quote:
I feel its pretty sad that if you don't have a bond with your own family you can hang up having one with others.. you might complain that you have no friends but your best friends are your family who give up their life for you.


You sound like a real martyr with that sentence "give up their life for you".

In any case, I never asked anyone to give up their life for me but to leave me the hell alone, or to be there for *real* when I ask, not just with words. (My friends - my real friends - have been there for me, unlike my "family")

Quote:
I try never to change my son but to let him be what he needs to be to feel comfortable. Yes I make him do things he does not want to do. But thats life and thats a lesson in life. Get over it.



It's only a lesson for aspies if you actually *explain it out loud*! WHY is it a lesson? What is the lesson to be learned? Too many parents assume their kids will just get it.

Quote:
As a parent I do family things with my family. At times we don't have 2 nickles to rub together because 1 parent stays home to raise the family and make sure that the kids are not being taken care of by other people. we try to do things that don't cost a lot. yes my son wants to do greater things but he knows that we don't have a lot... Basically I say that some of you have great familes who try like heck to understand you. but at times you make it very hard for us to understand. its a 2 way street!


Sounds like blaming the kids again to me. I am so sick and tired of NTs (parents and otherwise) blaming the aspies for not getting what they're not being told, and for being "hard to understand". "its a 2 way street" doesn't mean s**t when you're talking about a kid who can't figure out what the heck you're talking about. YOU have the responsibility to figure out what your kid needs and to help your kid understand what you are trying to have hir learn. If you don't say out loud what the point of some "activity" is, then don't expect them to understand.

and, frankly, "family time" for me usually meant time away from doing what I wanted to be doing for no apparent reason ohter than that my parents wanted to do it. If they had bothered actually talking with me about it, maybe it would have been different. Either they could have explained why it was something I would want to do and what it was useful for, or they could have accepted (I mean *really accepted* that I didn't give a rat's patoot about whatever it was and left me home to have some quality alone-time.)



Anna
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14 Aug 2006, 11:52 pm

ryansjoy wrote:
KimJ wrote:
As both a parent of a HFA and probably on the spectrum myself, I totally disagree with ryansjoy's admonishment. A lot of the parental behaviors described here are emotionally abusive and at the very least hypocritical and selfish. lack of consideration my husband and I got from our families. (his story is much worse than mine)


from what I said you can call me this.. emotionally abusive? hypocritical and selfish? I can not understand from what I said that you can call me this. how can you consider me emotionally abusive?
.


Um - Kim was referring to the *other* parents and families who you were defending. Duh.



Anna
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14 Aug 2006, 11:54 pm

KimJ wrote:
We don't make family trips unless we all get something out of it.


YES! Thank you for saying this! THIS is what "family time" is supposed to be about. Stuff we'll *all* get something out of, not just something the parent is doing "for" the kids whether the kids want to or not.



Anna
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14 Aug 2006, 11:56 pm

KimJ wrote:
Ryan'sjoy, please reread my message. Nowhere do I make any accusation like that. Like you said, I don't know you at all. Please don't "rip me up" because you don't understand what I've written.
I disagreed with your "admonishment". There are some people here complaining about and relating their feelings about their families. You came on and basically told them they were probably wrong because of their AS traits. You seem very defensive at the same time, accusative and cold ("Get over it")
That's what I disagree with. They were describing behaviors that seem to me as abusive. You came to say they were wrong.

My post wasn't about you, I don't know why or how you would turn it all around and make it about yourself. I was clear about what I disagreed with and then moved on to my description of my own parents. Perhaps it makes you uneasy that parents are the subject of complaint. But they are a large part of our development and identity.


KimJ - you are far more tactful and polite than I am. Nice job.



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15 Aug 2006, 11:33 am

I can completely relate to the "family = BS" mentality that many here have. When I was younger I was punished for things I did not understand. A few examples that come to mind:

- One time we went to visit a friend of ours in another town. I was playing Nintendo before we left and was enjoying myself. I really didn't want to leave. My parents made me go anyways. I didn't really enjoy myself over at my friends's place. When we got back it was night already and I was tired and just wanted to play my Nintendo game again. My parents wanted me to watch some Sesame Street on ice show or something. I didn't want to. I was grounded. My parents later told me that I had a "grumpy attitude" or something. What they don't understand is it had been a long day and I really just wanted to play my game. They kept insisting on me watching the Sesame Street show and that made me a bit mad.
- Another time was when my best friend and I were younger as well. We found diapers and "potty stuff" really funny for some reason. There was a stack of unused diapers (my younger brother's) on the bed in the room we were in. My dad told me to put them away or I'd be grounded. I did, but I missed one. I went back to get it but I couldn't stop giggling, so he grounded me anyways. I've never understood why he did that. I was doing what he told me to - putting the diapers away.
- My dad always acts like a little hyperactive kid when he's at home and not in a "work mood." My brother and I (as well as my mother) don't like it yet he continues. And he wonders why I "lash out" at him with a "bad attitude." :roll: My mom denies that he has a problem.
- My dad once took my old computer (the only one that was mine at the time) and took it apart to mount it on a board for display for my brother's Cub Scouts project. I then had to use our family computer for my needs, and got punished when I was on it too much. I eventually bought my own computer a few years later.
- I was always punished for failing grades and not doing my homework. I found such tasks mediocre and totally pointless. My parents even said in front of me during a meeting with my psychologist that punishing me never worked for the school/homework issue, yet for some reason they kept trying it afterwards.
- My dad played the "martyr card" once when I snapped at him. I don't care how much any parent has worked to "put a shelter over your head" and "keep dinner on the table" and all that, if you're not acting like you deserve respect, you won't get it. If only he understood that...

My parents just b*tched at me when I said I wanted to commit suicide. They lectured me on how you "can't always get your way." I'm in pain and all they can do is b*tch and lecture me?! I don't remember asking to be born. All they've ever done is made my life hell. They make me feel like a child undeserving of affection. Blood relations mean nothing to me. There are very few people in my "family" that I give a rat's @ss about. My friends are in some ways more important to me. I often ask myself what I did to deserve this life. I've yet to receive an answer.


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15 Aug 2006, 9:28 pm

YellowBird wrote:
My parents just b*tched at me when I said I wanted to commit suicide. They lectured me on how you "can't always get your way." I'm in pain and all they can do is b*tch and lecture me?!

You're lucky they just b*tched at you. Now I'm not trivializing your problem, I'm just saying there are worse reactions to suicide statements (notice I didn't say "threats"). When I told my parents I wanted to commit suicide, they told me: "If you ever mention it again, we'll report you to our doctor; we'll make sure you get put into a mental institutiuon, where they'll tie you up in a straightjacket and give you shots to keep you sedated all the time." (read: in a vegetative state)



blackduck
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20 Aug 2006, 9:19 am

At school I had a couple of NT friends. I used to wish my family were more like theirs.

I later found out that they wished their family was more like mine!

I now think just about every family is dysfunctional in some way. that's why movies & TV sit coms about dysfunction families are successful.


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