Beliefs are feelings

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What is your most important belief?

Now imagine that it is wrong.

How does that make you feel?

Would having a belief that you rely on cause you to feel humiliation, pain, sorrow, or any feeling if it were proven to be wrong?

Let's say you think that your belief is fact. Now imagine that it is not a fact and it is wrong. How does that make you feel?

If we are programmed to feel emotions along with our beliefs, how can we trust them? I think that if you can imagine that your belief is wrong and be happy in knowing the truth, then that is a good sign that your beliefs are less likely to cloud your perception. I think that all beliefs are based in emotion unless you place your beliefs in ideas rather than your emotions. A belief that is an idea should be able to change with new knowledge. A belief that is based on emotion is glued to feelings and does not want to budge.

I'll start. I believe that I have a soul. If I do not, that makes me feel like I am a robot. That makes me feel like a slave. If I learned that I do not have a soul, I would feel like a victim of circumstance. I don't think I would be crushed if I learned that I do not have a soul, but I would want to learn how I am supposed to deal with feeling like I do. I think I could not give up that belief because I am programmed to feel it.

I believe that the earth is round. If I were proven wrong, I wouldn't really feel any particular way about it but I would be happy to know the truth finally and would continue to pursue the new found knowledge.

So, what is your belief and how would you react if you were proven wrong?

I believe that I am a self-examiner who filters [I do not BLOCK] emotion.

This is unlikely to be proven wrong, it has been quite robust for many years.

If it were proven wrong, I believe - based on the last time a major-t belief was shown to be wrong - I would experience a short period of disorientation and proceed nornally until the NEW belief wsas shown to be wrong.

I also believe some people - I COULD name names but will not - do not filter, but AMPLIFY emotion.

Such people often leap on a new belief and embrace it passionately. In many cases they resist a change of belief with tears or violence.

Yeah, I've been on band wagons before. I've been humbled though. Maybe it's good to be crushed once in a while? It's sort of like killing pieces of you, but the good news is that new pieces grow. Filter is a good word. Well, here is a good video that reminds me of how we change after devasting blows like learning we are wrong. It's funny in hindsight but it's not when you are clinging to beliefs that you hold on to with utter emotional urgency.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuT1i0ac6u4[/youtube]

We each, as individuals, receive data from our senses and with that data construct what we believe to be the nature of reality. As humans we each have sense apparatus very similar to each other but not always precisely the same and we arrange the data in a a way that makes sense to us and permits us to act to receive results that are rewarding and avoid disappointment and pain. The arrangements we believe are those that work for us and when we discover they don't work we must change our understanding of how they are arranged. Emotions are the reactions to the success or failure of how we use the beliefs to work in our world.

Great thoughts sand. Without feelings, can you really hold a consistent belief to the point where you think it is truth?

Sand, you said that feelings are reactions to the success or failures that our beliefs have for us. Nicely said...however, I think feelings supercede our logic when we formulate a belief. I think we formulate beliefs to hold up the deck of cards. We won't use a card (belief) if it will possibly knock down the others.

I know I do this too, but even in knowing that, I still am unable to change it. All I can do is be aware of it and then pretend to believe whatever works. In doing this it enables me to allow others to believe what they want more so than when I clung to beliefs out of emotions. And it also takes away the sting whenever I realize that I am wrong, or it brings joy when I learn something new. The worst part of this transformation process is shame. It's like how Scrooge learned. It's well worth it though. Anaylzing feelings is tricky business.

There are, through tradition and religion, a huge cultural complex of beliefs that seem to me to have no foundation and can lead to misconceptions and misdirections with very unfortunate results. Life was a great mystery to primitive humans an they identified living with breathing and breath. Not a bad first attempt but modern science has become quite a bit more sophisticated about the matter and the breath, which had been identified as the essence of life, and relabeled as the soul, has been superseded by and understanding that life is a functional dynamic process enabled by a functional organic structure. The soul is an unfortunately persistent myth that has no basis in observed fact. Religious organizations are cultural structures than do have some benefits to civilization but to a major extent they have promulgated all sorts of nonsense to maintain their existence and power and wealth by the use of archaic fantasy and improbable expectations. We live our short lives and die and disappear and that simply is the way it is and it should be accepted and made an essential and basic concept for our functional existence.

In the end does it really matter what the facts are?

I remember a song by the Music Group "Styx" called "Lord of the Rings", back in 1978, that to me illustrates that belief can be more valuable than facts. The songs describes the legend of the "Lord of the Rings" and how it was only legend and fantasy. But, the song says the belief and hope the legend brought was what was real and important. I don't think this is just philosophy; whatever it is in life that gives a person belief, purpose, and hope creates the brain chemistry a person needs for survival.

Some people gain this through social relationships, some from work, some through cultural beliefs, and in my case it was mostly special interests.

I think each of our perceptions of reality and what we believe to be right can only be a partial representation of the "truth" of reality because of the way our minds work.

The way we perceive our own unique world is based on our experience. Our reality of the present is constructed by the mind, based on our experience, to reflect what worked in the past and is necessary for our well being and survival. The result, in part, is illusion. So in other words, sometimes what works (the thing that makes our brain chemistry good), even if it is illusion, can be the important thing for well being and survival.

I can logically come up with reasons why I am right that the "Lord of the Rings" is only fantasy and illusion. But, if the person believing this illusion, I am debating this with, maintains the same purpose, hope, and belief that gives them good brain chemistry throughout their life, and I on the other hand am not able to find a logical special interest that allows me a sense of wellbeing; who is doing a better job at survival, the one that was logically right or the one that used whatever adaptation was beneficial for survival?

I can't disagree with most of what is in the previous posts because they are logical and seem factual to me. But on the other hand I can see where my wife and mother's purpose and hope gained from their beliefs assist them in maintaining the brain chemistry to get through each day.

Investment.

Socrates was the wisest because he knew that he knew nothing.

Well, this is a philosophy forum so we can talk about this sort of stuff. True, most people don't question their beliefs because it helps them get through the day. Looking around though, I see that a lot of people hold on to beliefs vehemently and while this may make them feel better, it isn't beneficial to other people who disagree. Let's say someone believes God forbids homosexuality and then they line up belief after belief to uphold this. Somewhere along the road they can cause harm to others.

So, what is better in reality, to be happy getting by day to day? or to realize that your beliefs are just emotions and possibly lose parts of your ego and in turn that makes you kinder to all people? I think an unexamined life is like being a robot because you are programmed to ensure that you are maintaining your individual beliefs because it makes you feel good. Maybe they extend to your family or community but doesn't extend too much further than that.

I like the hive mentality. The one mind or universal mind is like a hive. I'm not into getting by these days. That is boring. I want truth. Maybe that is an emotional desire too? Not really I don't think because when I want truth I feel more like I have a hive mentality and I enjoy hearing other people's beliefs and exchanging knowledge. I mean, as long as the other people are not emotionally charged and they let go/don't care if they are right or wrong...just working for the hive brain or universal mind, that seems meaningful and worthwhile to me.

Socrates lived in pretty primitive times. I can make a reasonably good chocolate cake with fudge frosting, something Socrates didn't know existed.

Athens after Pericles was not primitive in the intellectual sense. Keep in mind that the Greek thinkers invented mathematics as we know it and establish the principle of natural laws as opposed to the whim of the gods. All of our best science has lineal descent from Greek philosophy.

ruveyn

aghogday:

"In the end does it really matter what the facts are? "

It matters tremendously what the facts are.

It matters THAT the facts ARE.

In once sense it does not matter that we are so limited by the laws of our place that we cannot fully KNOW the facts - much less the truth.

But it matters tremendously that many if not all [who am I to speak for all?] humans log to get at the facts - and ultimately the truth.

It does not make a difference to the USA as she stands to day that young George Washington may not have chopped down a tree, or it may not have been a cherry tree, or he may have lied himself blue in the face to pin the blame on somebody else. And if that is ALL you mean, the fact of the matter does not, as a matter of fact, matter.

But the Fact does matter.

Plato and Socrates believed in deities. Pythagoras also accepted this. While they were logical and realistic, they also knew that there were hidden forces. Nanotechnology is all about quantum particles. It defies Newtonian physics. If you cling to what is considered as fact, such as Newtonian physics then nanotechnology would not be possible. That would be such a waste. Even Newton obsessed about this with his work in alchemy. He knew there was something he was missing.

Did Hawking [I think it was] really lament that Physics was dead because there were no significant questions left?

Even if you claim a totally material mechanistic universe - which $50 bucks says it ain't - how can we think we have even a quarter of the first infinity figured?

I'm questioning the value of illusion in survival. When I question in the end do the facts really matter, it is in relationship to the previous post that we live we die and that's it, so from that perspective nothing matters to the individual after they die, whether they lived a life based on illusion or understood the "ultimate truth", the only thing that matters is what worked for them in life.

While most of my life I thought I pursued the "ultimate truth" with logic and facts; from what I have observed most people pursue whatever illusion is beneficial to their experience of life and ultimately their survival. Many people's ultimate truth (or illusion) is determined by others at an early age and no matter how intelligent they are they question it very little. And, while most of my life, I felt quite clever, to see through many illusions; at this point in my life, I question was my way of thinking a better strategy at survival or was their ability to adhere to a certain amount of illusion a better strategy.

I find the original post of the are beliefs feelings interesting, because while I have also struggled with this it is obvious to me through observation that most peoples beliefs are intrinsically tied into their emotions and feelings and they wouldn't have it any other way.

Maybe the logical objective approach is stronger with the way the "autistic brain" works as opposed to the emotional illusory approach in the majority of others.

I'm vegan, feminist, atheist, an ethical utilitarian, an empiricist, and many more.

I'm pretty emotionless when it comes to my beliefs.
I can't name one that isn't the result of years and years of intense study, analyzation, and occasionally being proven wrong.
I love to be proven wrong-
it's only then that your thinking evolves.

It becomes harder and harder to find people who can challenge you as you evolve though.