You have my promise - for the Christians

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This is purely for gathering data - you will get no arguments o comments or persuasion / dissuasion from me, and I trust others will show the same respect. I need not source these - it ain't true, and there have been loads of fiction talking such things.

THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:

Suppose you were presented with incontrovertible proof that Jesus got out of Dodge and lived to the ripe age of 59 in Samaria with Mary Magdalene and their eleven children, and / or incontrovertible proof that the Pauline epistles were forged in Antioch in 250 AD by an enterprising Galatian.

How would this affect your belief system and impact your faith?

That would invalidate the Christian narrative. It would be necessary to either abandon theism or adopt an alternate tradition (which may or may not still be Christ-centric).

Well, if Christ is a fraud...

I'd say that even if Christ were a fraud, then I'd simply attempt in my own feeble way to worship the same Yahweh that Abraham worshipped, the reason being that, to me, it's the only religion that makes sense. I'd go on believing that the Christ would come to fulfill what was written in the prophets and place all my faith in the coming Messiah.

Which is pretty much what I do, anyway, with the exception that I DO believe Jesus is the risen Savior.

Thanks and thanks.

This is actually starting to be more useful than my innate pessimism had feared.

It wouldn't change much. I already think they were together. I think he died on the cross, but if that were not true I would think that they tried to kill him and he miraculously got out of it.

Yeah, I hear that William Lane Craig once said that even if he had a time machine and went back in time to see the actual event, and saw that there was no resurrection, he would still believe.

Doesn't that sound just a little bit crazy?

ruveyn

It does not sound crazy, ruveyn. It is crazy.

Believing something in the absence of proof is faith. Believing something in the face of disproof is crazy.

Not to appear to just jump to Dr. Craig's defense, but lots of Christians don't believe in the bodily resurrection. I do, but thats another matter. If the history turned out to be patently false (the divinity of Christ for instance) then my beliefs would have to change, I would probably become a Jew. If he survived the crucifixion, then that would be a miracle, considering the injuries he sustained.

Well, there is nothing to stop Jesus from rising from the dead then going off with Mary and having children with her. The other stuff could have been forged later to protect the decendents of Jesus.

Craig believes in the bodily resurrection, and we both know that. So... I am confused about how you appear to jump in his defense given that Dr. Craig is really talking about a rejection of standard ways of gaining knowledge by trusting in his inward conviction.

I think your talking more about Alvin Plantinga, who has argued that faith through the Holy Spirit is an objective experience of its own, to be trusted in. Neither of them however have argued that faith should override logic, in fact both have stated the opposite.

The comment by Craig was that even if he had direct, indisputable empirical disproof of his beliefs, he would maintain them. (Namely, that we would believe in the literal bodily resurrection even if he was able to see with his own eyes that it didn't happen) I know people who have a similar attitude. This is known as true-believer syndrome, where someone is committed to an idea to the point where it no longer matters whether it is true or false. This passes out of the realm of faith; such people are insane. They certainly should never be regarded as intellectually honest.

If you must have a religion, being Jewish is not a bad choice. The underlying ethics of Judaism are very sound.

ruveyn

That's assuming you have a choice.

If you gotta be on the spectrum, being male may well be the best choice.

A religion that makes sense?