What's exactly what Jesus saves us from?

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So, born again Christians... What's up with that?

They speak that they were "saved for 19 years". What exactly were they saved from? contraception? life support?

Last edited by Vexcalibur on 29 Dec 2010, 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Something to do with renouncing a past lifestyle and accepting christ into their lives.

I could tell you.

Or you could read the source texts.

Or -best of all - you could just ask him what he would save you from, given permission. He might just tell you.

I just asked him, he didn't reply.

The source texts mention hell. But then that would mean, Jesus is saved us from God's own creation. Jesus is saving us from God?

ears to hear ....

read the source texts more closely.

Hell is God's solution for people who really don't want to be with him.

There is only one thing you need to be saved from. If you keep looking and asking, you will find whatr it is. Then you get to choose.

One of the big deals of Christianity is that - unlike me - he does not force himself on people who don't want him.

i see in your profile that you are a self Dx'ed aspie.

maybe that explains the lack of logic in your statement:





after you stated:





how is that not forcing himself on anybody if this god-thing-figure could/should exist?

it is beyond me that people can state such nonsense for millennia.

oh, well.

There's a difference between imposing your thoughts and beliefs on someone and giving someone a choice and following though on their choice.

that's why i choose to shake my head... since there is no choice to be made.



once upon a time there was a man who told people that the earth was not the center of the universe.

people at that time were appalled and threatened him to denounce his beliefs... or else...

he was guilty in the eyes of the believers that earth was the center. and that this non-believer was guilty no matter what if he didn't denounce it.

even if they had killed the poor man, everybody would have believed he was guilty. until somebody actually could proof that he had been right.... and thus was killed by stating the truth, and nothing but the truth, and without having done anything wrong.


if a man doesn't believe in a fairytale god, he will go to hell, according to the believers of the said fairytale. no matter what.

and after the man is dead... and he off course really isn't going anywhere at all... they will keep on believing that the poor innocent man is in hell... for eternity!

the poor man can't ever win the battle and proof that the fairytale is... well... a fairytale.

that doesn't automagically make what the believers believe in right... that is called a mass delusion.

the man has no choice, other than to be a part of the mass delusion and involuntary act the "victim" or "looser" part who is bound to wind up in hell.

no believer will/can add the option, that the man could be right... and the believer wrong. that's not an option... because than the believer would have doubt about his faith in the fairytale... and thus not be a thru believer.

full circle.

but if your right and there is no god there's nothing to worry about. So it's either believe and go to heaven or chose not to believe and simply die.

i don't worry about where i'll go...

i worry about the ridiculous impact believers have in my daily life by forcing their fairytale beliefs upon the world....

i see churches, mosques and synagogs and what have you. i hear their bells chiming, and heared their minarets yelling like crazy. i have to pay taxes (here in denmark) so they can afford their fairytale hobby. i see their wars on the news whole of my life - every single day. i see the measures taken in airports and the restrictions for free people like me. i realize how much believers have hold back human progress for millennia. i see cartoonist threatened for drawing funny cartoons that should make people laugh and have fun. i read history books that document the torments the believers forced upon our ancestors for centuries and centuries. i see the world close down for something called "holy"days, interrupting my life for their believes. i see the x-mas hysteria for months, even though the center-stage-fairytale-child wasn't born at that date at all....

i can in no way circumvent their mass delusion. i am part if it. i have no choice.

i really don't worry about where i'll go after i die... i worry about being alive in their totally and utterly deranged world!

As the US government has verified, the best way to control people is to scare them. All totalitarian exercises carry that basic fundamental principle. Religion has been using it for centuries. Hell is a great tool and most people react rather than think.

saved them from going to hell by not being a christian.

"Believe in me or burn"

Also could refer to the prophecy from Revelations. Jesus would gather an army to fight against the antichrist and its followers - the apocalypse, end of days heralded by the coming of the four horsemen. Since the rapture is a fairly recent concept and wouldn't have had a place in the old testament, none of the faithful or righteous would be spared by ascending.

...and I don't see a zombie duking it out with a demon as cool as that sounds.

Honestly, we both know that you aren't really just deriving this from the source texts. Hell is for those who do not repent, sure, but the deeper solution you provide is more explicit in CS Lewis than the Bible, and it is entirely reasonable to say that Hell is God's solution to people who do not do what is needed to accept his solution to the "justice" situation.

As for, "not forcing himself on people who don't want him", the issue is that Calvinist theology does not really recognize the issue of "force", but rather claims that because mankind is naturally sinful, any who escape this sinfulness do so because God, by Himself, let them free from sin so that they could love God. However, there is not really the choice to love God for the unelected sinner(sure, there is a formal ability to choose, but nobody will do it), and there is really really no choice for one of the elect not to love God, as God cleanses that person.

The issue is that Calvinism is a theology that loudly proclaims its biblicality, which causes issue with you calmly saying "Scripture is like X", because well.... many people have read Y from those same texts.

Short answers:
Hell
Sin
Depraved lifestyle
Life without God

A lot of those can work. The biggest problem is that Christianity is kind of creating a problem to save people from.

yup

Stemming from compounded and/or extrapolated misunderstandings and/or misrepresentations of Matthew 1:21 ...

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"... and thou shalt call his name YahuShua, for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21).
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... few people know how to even respond to that kind of question.

Simply said: YahuShua exemplified "The Way" of what might be called "spiritual health", and doing likewise or "following his example" or "following after him" can bring about pleasing results ... and that is really the end of all that.