Aspie culture and Aspie candor: Hope or hokum?

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"We are of one Barbarian blood, let us have no diplomacy."
-Hector in Homer's Iliad

It has been hypothesized that the Neanderthals where more practical and even mechanically inclined, but where never the less beaten out by the extended family organizational skills of the Cro-Magnons. Sound familiar?

Part of my problem is, indeed, in the practical failure at outreach. But another may be simply in normal interactions that such as we may find excruciatingly empty and boring for any number of reasons. Also, there may be any number of contingent relationships between the two problems.

Such are the daunting challenges to social intelligence to which we are all so hapless. Although, so I gather, there are many here of extremely stunted emotional intelligence as well, right insensitive bastards! The entire spectrum of clueless is here well represented.

"They wish to cure us. I say: We are the cure!" -proclaims Magento...

Indeed, another question to raise is: Are these incompatibilities of Aspies in navigating the dysfunctionality of mainstream society, or are these intrinsic behavioral and perceptual problems, even among Aspies? Is there really a functional Aspie culture? Or is all such naught but a self serving balm of fantasy? Alas, here is a crucial controversy more suggested than debated openly.

I have seen no end of consensual validation online, but often an actual taboo against actually making plans to solve problems. No one however normal shows any sense of what it means to draw an agenda. And I have yet to find any better in any Aspie community either. Is that all there is? Or can we do better? Where oh where, is the fabled Aspie candor and practicality? Can we ever hope to progress by playing to our strengths? Or is any such hope no more than the same wishful mythology?

Personally, I am often certainly missing whatever meaningful connection that will ever truly assuage loneliness. I also yearn to organize effectively for every effective larger purpose beyond what the individual can accomplish alone. Of course, as has often been observed of Aspies, I do not value "trophy friends," "stepping stones" or other such exercises in social intelligence sans emotional intelligence. Which, of course, makes for a deadly handicap in extended social networking. And likely as a consequence, my simplest practical connections likewise leave everything to be desired.

And so, is all such an intrinsic handicap, or entirely contingent upon conventional expectations in the mainstream? In other words, can we actually do any better even amongst ourselves? Or are we all just well and truly forever fuucked?

It looks to me like most groups in the English speaking world who have truth on their side are oppressed and have trouble making any sort of plans. Too many people have been fooled into joining with the oppressors and unfortunately those are the ones of us who have better organizational skills and educations.

Must it be ever thus? If there honestly and truly exists an Aspie culture of candor, streamlining out all of the conventionally inane small talk, social climbing and manipulation, then...

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

— Margaret Mead

Or is the above nothing but wishful motivational Pollyanna pandering BS and sheer Ecclesiastical vanity?

Aspie culture and Aspie candor: Hope or hokum?

More info please?

((Perferably in non-shakespearean-like English))

Prithe, be there perchance any manner of a question yonder, sirah?

Problem-solving? I have a strong conviction that confrences follow these lines:

A:How can we solve the problem of <insert problem here>
B:We can solve the problem via <insert solution here>
C:Why solve the problem?
D: I don't quite follow
C:Let's just come up with a new name for it, a more politically correct term
E:Like what?
C: Like <insert new name here>

C's 'solution' is implented and the problem is 'solved'.

Most of the opinions I've held, which are pretty much in line with most people here I've had before I ever knew there was an online community.


I would argue that we don't really have a culture. At least not yet. It's getting there though.


Some people are overly defensive, and refuse to acknowledge their flaws. This behavoir isn't exclusive to NTs after all, we can be real twits too sometimes. The thing is though, you need to accept that you do have problems before you can overcome them.

Half the problem I think is that people don't realize that over coming their own problems is something that is fundementally positive. Or at least it can be if your attitude is to improve yourself.


And of course there are also a lot of people here who for the most part acknowledge what their situation is. I think that many people with Asperger's Syndrome are great communicators. Because they have spent so much time learning how to convey a message, and how the same thing said in different ways can hold different meanings. This is what I mean by self improvement.

Is that more "We are of one mind, we need no evasion or careful talk"
Or more, "No words, we settle this with blood and steel"?



May I try for a third option? That which is good for society may not be good for the individual.
This has been expounded for manic-depressive creativity, and may also hold for AS traits.

Society may advance, or just survive better, with a leavening of the unusual, the outsiders, the differently observant. Scapegoats and savants: proposers of alternate strategies and tactics from the consensus of the majority.

That doesn't mean these peculiars are going to be held in high regard for their difference.
Not as an automatic thing.

Scouts and pioneers tend to have a lonely life, and some perish in the wilderness, whether that is a mental and social one or a more literal " strange land".

But what might they discover, and what would the masses miss out on if no-one ventured beyond the neat fence marking the border of the social and cultural norm? Voluntarily or involuntarily!

In context, both originally and currently, the former not the latter.

This is all very fine and good, Emettman, but I fear that you are shifting ground. Although, of course, the bogus problem solving methodology whereof Iammeandnooneelse speaks may be worse than useless, I have, indeed, defined a specific problem, the daunting difficulty of social networking. And thereof, I have framed a specific question, which I fully intend to press:
Is the aforesaid difficulty in social and interpersonal networking a function of incompatibilities of Aspies in navigating the venial dysfunctionality of mainstream society, or rather a handicap of intrinsic behavioral and perceptual problems, even among Aspies?
Is the phenomena in question, indeed, another example of how society prioritize it's own agenda of internal process over the relevant needs of the individual dissident, or is phenomena in question an example of an individual handicap, regardless of the social context?

Xuincherguixe opines that there is no Aspie culture yet. Indeed, is one even needed? And to what end? To compensate for our own deficiencies, given the latter answer to my question, or to liberate us given the former?

"Logic is an enemy and truth is a menace." Rod Serling on The Twilight Zone, narrating "The Obsolete Man."

This was supposed to be, the American society, a free and open society. It is anything but. Government officials freely and openly conspire to rid people of their freedoms. We don't really have a culture, not much outside of our neighbors minding our business more than their own, and our neighbors having more control over our business than we do, which basically leads to the police state.

Biitch, biitch, moan, moan, all too true, well and good to say. But you sidestep the question yet again. You are copping out one way or the other. So I'll make the question even more concise: Are we incompetent or just irresponsible? Perhaps the fault is with ourselves and not our fate, because we are disabled from effective interpersonal networking. If so, then let us acknowledge our shortcomings with all candor and no fuss, stop living on the banks of de-Nile, and see what can be done. Or else, are we, indeed, networking effectively even amongst ourselves? If not, then can we? If we can, then shouldn't we? Who even wants to? Can I get any straight answers?

I fear you are overwording it, leaving some in the dark. You tread dangerously close to jargon.

What the good sir is asking is this(as far as I can tell):

Do we communicate effectively with other aspies? Or do we fail to communicate fully, just as we do with NTs?

Are we really just kidding ourselves that all this WP talk is a positive course of action? Will we become better people, or are we just patting each other on the back?

Please correct me if I am wrong AaronAgassi.

I take my question beyond mere communication. I certainly hope that you know what is meant by networking. No, I'm not talking about LANs! I mean social networking, interpersonal networking. Indeed, whatever the intrinsic value of communication, surely every crucial importance of networking connections in life is undeniable. Is this not plain enough yet? And can we return to my actual question?

In which case I probably feel that:
"We are of one Barbarian blood, let us have no diplomacy."
doesn't really hold. Not really of one blood or mind, us Aspies, even allowing for certain isolatable brain differences. Too much difference in belief and culture. Christian and Wiccan and Atheist, Left and Right...

Any property can be selected out and examined in isolation:

Is there such a thing as blonde culture?
And from blonde jokes to aryan racism, that's not quite trivial.

I was not intending simply to escape your point, but its implied framework is itself forcing, and therefore up for question.



Both. It doesn't have to be either/or!

The role and fate of the individual dissident can be seen well away from the AS question, and Since I don't feel there is an easy claim for an Aspie culture* we don't have a unique problem in this regard.

The outsider, of whatever configuration, is both useful to, and rejected by the mainstream.
The fate of the individual outsider is not of great relevance to society at large. The triumphs and breakthroughs can be absorbed and exploited, the failures used to reinforce the lesson that "normal is good".


*speculation as to what society would look like and what a social "faux pas" would consist of were Aspies to be in the majority may be of interest.
If we were in the majority, would we still have "deficiencies"? As a spectrum thing, the answer would still be yes, at the extreme, though there would be likely to be more understanding and more sympathetic assistance available.

and I guess I didnt answer.

A community like this has at least positive effects for people new to aspergers DX, or people who, like myself, are nearly normal.

For example: I strongly dislike having my shoulders touched. Its something I've known most of my life, and in retrospect, points out the times that I lost my temper and became violent. If I am prepared to have them touched, I can bear it. If I am not expecting it, My reactions vary from fright to being creeped out to violence.

Having come to WP has shown me that it is a matter of sensory sensativity, rather than being an issue of trust or somesuch other issue. Now the knowledge is qualified; I understand; I can deal with it. I am much less likely to freak out.

Likewise, I see certain lifelong actions of mine as being an attempt to fit in to normal society. Certain fantasies and destructive or unhealthy behavior are no longer of any interest to me. To engage in such behavior now seems silly and pointless, and I enjoy peace of mind, free from that obsession.

By that, I mean I no longer seek a romantic relationship, because to me, thats just something to do to fit in. My emotional needs dont require it, as far as I can tell. If that be from retarted emotional development, or an over sensativity to the emotional bonding I do get, I dont know. I dont care.

What I do know is reading about other ASers has given me insight into myself. For a lifetime now, I have understood that I have no interest in providing for the emotional needs of another person, and now I understand that I would be miserable to even try.

I digress. Off topic it seems.

WP is a community. It gives emotional and peer support. Unlike many forums, there is very little anger here, and thats a good sign that communication is good. Its when people start suppositioning each other that we end up with fights.

Further, reading about people with similar issues allows us to hold a mirror to ourselves. Does it allow us to find solutions to our issues? I can only speak this:

I dont see NT society solving social issues. I dont see them learning to love better, to become more tolerant, to reduce the stress in their lives, to understand themselves better. I dont see them communicating very well with each other!

Whether we are a community or not, we are a niche group of that community. We can be no worse than they, and by the lack of flaming posts and trolls, I'd say we are a damn sight better.

Ah! My apologies. Returning to your original question in the post.

Yes.

That WAS easy. Sorry I made it so hard!





I count no less than three questions here. You ask questions the way politicians do, and in ways that cannot be answered as yes or no, leaving some Aspies at a loss. It reminds me somewhat of the 1995 Quebec referendum question...

"Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Quebec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?"

...when most people would have be well served with "Should Quebec separate from Canada?"

If you expect a concise, on topic answer, you should ask questions in a concise direct way. Otherwise, interpretation gets in the way, and you get annoyed because people are skirting your question.



Again, I misinterpreted you. I apologise. I now see that as meaning online communities as a whole, rather than just WP. I agree. The online community is very much against making actual changes. Its a mutant child of social gatherings in physical life.

Its best seen in programming forums, with the youth/newbie cry "give me the code..." but somewhat avoided in places like http://www.theringlord.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi forum, where we engage in a physical activity. There people must work out solutions to their problems(chainmail related). It is only in the off topic forums that fights really happen.



So you want to build pyramids, so to speak? To marry, to have offspring, to start a dynasty?Perhaps not in such great ways, but to achieve the goals of men and women held in esteem in society? To be a social patriarch? I have never seen those leading to lasting happiness. the people who are happy, are those that take joy in simple things like sunsets. The existance of social success was secondary to those things.

If you take all that a man has, and he is still happy, or at least content, then he will be no happier with all the worlds treasure.



No more or less than any man, be he one that has two legs, none, or three.