DNC caught trying organize protests in Wisconsin

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From what I understand, the main thing they're protesting is not the benefits cuts (since they offered a compromise whereby they would accept pay and benefits cuts) but the fact that Walker wants to take away the right of collective bargaining, which would, in effect, kill the union.

I am.

Me too

If Jacoby as a Paulite is in favour of freedom of the individual then surely he is in favour of individuals joining Trade unions so that they may improve their financial lot in life. After all, wanting to better yourself is the american way!

Isn't it true that in his philosophy that the only people that are allowed to form and operate collectives are rich corporations and Ceos and that all forms a labor laws and protections would be removed? So some individuals would be free and some would be less free?

All people are free... but some are more free than others.

That isn't entirely true Orwell. They would still have the ability to bargin over salary, just not for more vacation time than they already have, new tv's in the teacher's lounge, stuff like that.

Okay, I think there is some misinformation going around about what's actually in the bill.

from Reuters

* State workers must increase contributions to their pensions to 5.8 percent of salary, and double contributions to their health insurance premiums to 12.6 percent. This would result in a cut in take-home pay of about 8 percent.

* Walker wants to limit collective bargaining to the issue of wages, and cap wage increases to the rate of inflation, with a voter referendum needed for larger increases.

* Walker's proposal would also prohibit employer collection of union dues and members of collective bargaining units would not be required to pay dues. Contracts would be limited to one year, and collective bargaining units would have to take annual votes to maintain certification as a union.

* Walker said collective bargaining takes too long and the cuts need to be made immediately. He said the alternative is layoffs of more than 10,000 workers.

* Certain employees, including local law enforcement and fire employees, would be exempt from the collective bargaining changes.

Now I have a problem with that last part, I don't think they should be immunized from this law either altho I think there expense is probably more justified than most other public employees.

I've heard that this is how it is in 24 other states already so I really doubt a lot of the doomsday scenarios("WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE MAKING MINIMUM WAGE IF THIS PASSES" I've actually heard this)

One of the big problems with these unions are that they're a revolving door with ou r tax money. The state collects union dues for the unions right from their paychecks paid for by our tax money and the union goes around spends this money getting politicians elected to do their bidding. It's just so heavily skewed in favor of these unions right now.

How much does this proposal save the state overall? Does it offset Mr. Walker's recent tax cuts?

OK, that doesn't really seem like a horrible thing, and given the budget problems I can see that being a completely reasonable step to take, but in conjunction with large tax cuts I do wonder where the priorities of your governor are. Cutting taxes for the wealthy, and fixing the resulting budget shortfall on the back of public school teachers, is upward redistribution of wealth.


Um... in other words, the only union activity permitted will be begging to avoid pay cuts, and there will never be any real raises. Yeah, that one is a problem, especially depending on whether inflation is measured in a way that accurately reflects real cost-of-living increases.


This is just a blatant attempt to kill the union. If they are prohibited from any activity aside from begging for a meager inflation-pegged wage, they won't be able to maintain any support and they'll fall apart.


But the unions already offered to accept some cuts. Take those and continue the discussions. Why is it that budgetary crises are always more pressing when you want to cut spending on programs that benefit the poor and middle class than when you want to cut taxes for the rich?


Why? Because those unions backed Walker in the election? That is rotten political patronage, and you know it.


Really? Considering what utter dirtbags a lot of cops are, I'm surprised you would be so eager to defend their right to eat more donuts on the taxpayer dime.


OK, so it sounds like serious reform in the way the unions in your state are structured is needed.

$100,000 is BS. Most teachers starting salary is $35,000 and goes up to $65,000 after 30 years of teaching.

The cuts aren't the real issue. Most teachers thought the cuts were reasonable. The issue is that the legislation specifically singles out teachers unions in taking away collective bargaining rights to teachers.

Well apparently they get over 100k in salary and benefits in Wisconsin.

@ marshall: Is that with a bachelor's or master's degree? And what state are you talking about? They seem to be radically different from state to state.

In Canada high school teachers with a bachelor's start out with $35,000-$50,000, whereas a teacher with a master's after 10 years can make more than $80,000. Some of the states in the US are wacked when it comes to beginning wages. Apparently the average begining wage in Arizona is $23,548 and for North Dakota it's $23,591. For Michigan it's $54,020 which is among one of the highest.

Last edited by AceOfSpades on 20 Feb 2011, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

They are radically different from state to state, the hilarious part is that many of the states that pay less and are less union friendly actually have kids doing better in school.

LOL wtf? I dunno how that's supposed to work at all.

Hilarious, but not surprising.

Whatever the government touches turns brown, sticky and smelly in a big hurry.

ruveyn

It is cause people in the states making lots of money is where there is no teacher accountability. It is treated as some easy cushion job and it is extremely difficult to fire a teacher.

The states where teachers are accountable are teaching because they love to teach not for the money and it being an "easy" job.