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Abortion
Should be illegal, except in extreme cases 25%  25%  [ 14 ]
Should be legal during the first trimester only 24%  24%  [ 13 ]
Should be legal beyond the first trimester 47%  47%  [ 26 ]
Undecided 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 55

georgewbush
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16 Mar 2011, 6:09 am

What is your opinion on this issue?



MCalavera
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16 Mar 2011, 6:16 am

georgewbush wrote:
What is your opinion on this issue?


Abortion is sometimes necessary, although there are many cases in which abortion is done more out of selfishness than out of care for the "would-have-been" baby. That's when I would sort of disagree with abortion.

If you can raise a child, then do it and take some f*****g responsibility for your actions.



Awesomelyglorious
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16 Mar 2011, 6:40 am

Don't think the fetus is of ethical importance. Also, side note: early fetuses look like shrimp.



MCalavera
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16 Mar 2011, 6:45 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Don't think the fetus is of ethical importance. Also, side note: early fetuses look like shrimp.


Well, it is of some importance to me and to many. After all, it does become a human being that is you and me ... unlike a shrimp.



JakobVirgil
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16 Mar 2011, 7:15 am

I think human life begins at forty and one under that age can be killed with impunity. :wink:
-Jake



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16 Mar 2011, 7:42 am

yeh agree with what has been said, its only ok in extreme cases ie the mothers life is at risk etc, but not just because you can't be arsed raising the baby.



91
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16 Mar 2011, 8:32 am

Pro-Life

"The sophistry is overwhelming: If I choose and desire my child, then ipso facto I have granted it the right to live, and it will live. But the inverse is equally the case, by means of nothing more or less than my choice: Caesar's thumb is up, or Caesar's thumb is down."
~ Lord Nicholas Windsor


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MCalavera
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16 Mar 2011, 8:45 am

91 wrote:
Pro-Life

"The sophistry is overwhelming: If I choose and desire my child, then ipso facto I have granted it the right to live, and it will live. But the inverse is equally the case, by means of nothing more or less than my choice: Caesar's thumb is up, or Caesar's thumb is down."
~ Lord Nicholas Windsor


Pro-life lacks objectivity, 91.

What if the potential mother's life was at risk because of the child in her womb?

Does her life matter in this case?

Remember: "Pro-LIFE".



georgewbush
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16 Mar 2011, 8:51 am

Pro-life lacks objectivity? Maybe, and if so, what objectivity does pro-choice have?

Of course, if the mother's life is in peril, that is an extreme case that may justify abortion (most pro-life advocates don't deny this), so that does not make for a strong argument.



91
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16 Mar 2011, 8:52 am

MCalavera wrote:
91 wrote:
Pro-Life

"The sophistry is overwhelming: If I choose and desire my child, then ipso facto I have granted it the right to live, and it will live. But the inverse is equally the case, by means of nothing more or less than my choice: Caesar's thumb is up, or Caesar's thumb is down."
~ Lord Nicholas Windsor


Pro-life lacks objectivity, 91.

What if the potential mother's life was at risk because of the child in her womb?

Does her life matter in this case?

Remember: "Pro-LIFE".


I hold to the 'Principle of Double Effect' as outlined by St. Thomas Aquinas. I apply it to abortion also. If in the effort to save the life of both mother and child, the child dies, then we have done all we can for the life of both.


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MCalavera
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16 Mar 2011, 8:57 am

georgewbush wrote:
Pro-life lacks objectivity? Maybe, and if so, what objectivity does pro-choice have?

Of course, if the mother's life is in peril, that is an extreme case that may justify abortion (most pro-life advocates don't deny this), so that does not make for a strong argument.


But it's still good to point out the intellectual inconsistency that pro-lifers have to "struggle" with.



MCalavera
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16 Mar 2011, 8:58 am

91 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
91 wrote:
Pro-Life

"The sophistry is overwhelming: If I choose and desire my child, then ipso facto I have granted it the right to live, and it will live. But the inverse is equally the case, by means of nothing more or less than my choice: Caesar's thumb is up, or Caesar's thumb is down."
~ Lord Nicholas Windsor


Pro-life lacks objectivity, 91.

What if the potential mother's life was at risk because of the child in her womb?

Does her life matter in this case?

Remember: "Pro-LIFE".


I hold to the 'Principle of Double Effect' as outlined by St. Thomas Aquinas. I apply it to abortion also. If in the effort to save the life of both mother and child, the child dies, then we have done all we can for the life of both.


So it's pro-life doesn't work, pro-choice is the way.



91
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16 Mar 2011, 9:05 am

^^^^^

I am not sure how you used my statement to reach that conclusion.


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georgewbush
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16 Mar 2011, 9:09 am

MCalavera wrote:
georgewbush wrote:
Pro-life lacks objectivity? Maybe, and if so, what objectivity does pro-choice have?

Of course, if the mother's life is in peril, that is an extreme case that may justify abortion (most pro-life advocates don't deny this), so that does not make for a strong argument.


But it's still good to point out the intellectual inconsistency that pro-lifers have to "struggle" with.


To your response to both 91 and myself, you did not substantiate your initial claims, but rather iterated them.

Advocates of the pro-life position do not "struggle" with what you deem as "inconsistency".

If it is a decision between abortion of one life or the loss of no lives, I would easily favor the latter.
If it is between abortion of one life or the abortion of one life and the loss of another life, the former is the lesser of two evils.



you_are_what_you_is
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16 Mar 2011, 9:13 am

It should be legal right up until birth. Infanticide is occasionally justifiable, too.

.


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georgewbush
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16 Mar 2011, 9:15 am

you_are_what_you_is wrote:
It should be legal right up until birth. Infanticide is occasionally justifiable, too.

.


And what is birth other than a meaningless invisible man-made demarcator line?

Intrinsically, how is a a fetus different between one second from birth and one second after birth?