Qigong (Chi enhancement in martial arts)- Possible?

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Rocky
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26 Mar 2011, 9:41 pm

I took some lessons in Kung-Fu and was told about Qi. I am a skeptic, but I try to keep an open mind in general. I also never assume that anything is completely "black and white." Some of the theory might be true without all of it being true. Here is a link about the subject.

Qigong Wikipedia

I have felt something unusual during martial arts exercises. I felt chills up my spine, and a boost in energy and mood elevation. It could be a placebo effect, but the placebo effect can have its benefits. Any thoughts or experiences?


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PatrickNeville
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26 Mar 2011, 11:41 pm

Rocky wrote:
I took some lessons in Kung-Fu and was told about Qi. I am a skeptic, but I try to keep an open mind in general. I also never assume that anything is completely "black and white." Some of the theory might be true without all of it being true. Here is a link about the subject.

Qigong Wikipedia

I have felt something unusual during martial arts exercises. I felt chills up my spine, and a boost in energy and mood elevation. It could be a placebo effect, but the placebo effect can have its benefits. Any thoughts or experiences?


Two things, both of which I believe in:

Endorphins, which are chemicals released during exercise which create a high feeling and are generally great for the mind.

Energy pathways, which is related to reflexology. Basically by many forms of practice, such as precisely controlled motor movements and spiritual practices like meditation and Reiki, your body can become more attuned to energy fields around us all as well as energy flowing more freely within the body.


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Rocky
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27 Mar 2011, 12:09 am

PatrickNeville wrote:
Rocky wrote:
I took some lessons in Kung-Fu and was told about Qi. I am a skeptic, but I try to keep an open mind in general. I also never assume that anything is completely "black and white." Some of the theory might be true without all of it being true. Here is a link about the subject.

Qigong Wikipedia

I have felt something unusual during martial arts exercises. I felt chills up my spine, and a boost in energy and mood elevation. It could be a placebo effect, but the placebo effect can have its benefits. Any thoughts or experiences?


Two things, both of which I believe in:

Endorphins, which are chemicals released during exercise which create a high feeling and are generally great for the mind.

Energy pathways, which is related to reflexology. Basically by many forms of practice, such as precisely controlled motor movements and spiritual practices like meditation and Reiki, your body can become more attuned to energy fields around us all as well as energy flowing more freely within the body.


Good point about endorphins. Could be a factor in the sensations I experienced. I will have to research reflexology. Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind my asking, why do you believe as you do? Logic? Intuition?


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PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 1:01 am

Rocky wrote:
PatrickNeville wrote:
Rocky wrote:
I took some lessons in Kung-Fu and was told about Qi. I am a skeptic, but I try to keep an open mind in general. I also never assume that anything is completely "black and white." Some of the theory might be true without all of it being true. Here is a link about the subject.

Qigong Wikipedia

I have felt something unusual during martial arts exercises. I felt chills up my spine, and a boost in energy and mood elevation. It could be a placebo effect, but the placebo effect can have its benefits. Any thoughts or experiences?


Two things, both of which I believe in:

Endorphins, which are chemicals released during exercise which create a high feeling and are generally great for the mind.

Energy pathways, which is related to reflexology. Basically by many forms of practice, such as precisely controlled motor movements and spiritual practices like meditation and Reiki, your body can become more attuned to energy fields around us all as well as energy flowing more freely within the body.


Good point about endorphins. Could be a factor in the sensations I experienced. I will have to research reflexology. Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind my asking, why do you believe as you do? Logic? Intuition?


Well for me Endorphins are easily provable and a shared opinion in the experiences of many,

I realise that practices like martial arts can help us attain some sort of inner peace. I think this is because part of the practice is about being calm, being aware of your surroundings, using well timed coordinated movements. I also believe, that through person experience and through hearing the experiences of others that we may be feeling energy which is emitting from various sources like people and other living things. Logic would tell me that the sensations you are feeling may have been the result of becoming immersed in the moment, making yourself more able to feel these energies.

A simplified way of putting is saying that our minds detect energy and affect the world in some sort of way.

What I described above is a view shared with many Buddhists and Spiritual people. It goes into a lot more detail than that but I am afraid I can't describe it much better than that at the moment.

This film looks at it in more detail
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/what-the ... o-we-know/


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AceOfSpades
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27 Mar 2011, 12:34 pm

Meh chi is BS, and whatever is true about it is simply just fact interpreted in a mystical way.



PatrickNeville
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27 Mar 2011, 1:27 pm

It is really not. There is nothing mystical about it it is called reality.

Chi It is more or less a form of mediation and way of finding inner peace.

The breathing techniques and well controlled motor skills do help the mind to be at rest and also help the body repair itself.

Our minds do also affect the world around us. An example would be that researcher called Dr Masaru Emoto shown how our can minds affect the molecular structure of water. I would like to see the studies reproduced thoroughly as the reproductions have seen mixed results.

A small bit of writing about his work:
http://www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAvzsjcBtx8&feature=related[/youtube]

The work which went into this book also demonstrates that all matter, whether organic or not emits Radio Waves and that we can disturb certain radio frequencies which belong to certain virus, bacteria etc to reverse disease. It is possible, but not at all conclusive in any way that these Radio Waves are the same energy that we are becoming more in touch with through spiritual practices. It could be something different though.

I have this book in PDF format and I am happy to email anybody a copy of it: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cure-All-Diseas ... 1890035017

Related video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdLNNqIFJo[/youtube]

There is also Kirlian Photography which demonstrates how our minds / moods affect the EM energy we emit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirlian_photography
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnJghb8yk6c[/youtube]

Lastly, for Rocky here is a video on Thai Chi which may be worth watching. :) Hope that you enjoy it.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1uxOFJ8Mc[/youtube]

To sum it up the benefits of Chi. There are physical benefits which are produced through exercise, and more physical benefits on our minds and bodies by letting ourselves become attuned.


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Rocky
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28 Mar 2011, 4:14 am

PatrickNeville wrote:
Rocky wrote:
PatrickNeville wrote:
Rocky wrote:
I took some lessons in Kung-Fu and was told about Qi. I am a skeptic, but I try to keep an open mind in general. I also never assume that anything is completely "black and white." Some of the theory might be true without all of it being true. Here is a link about the subject.

Qigong Wikipedia

I have felt something unusual during martial arts exercises. I felt chills up my spine, and a boost in energy and mood elevation. It could be a placebo effect, but the placebo effect can have its benefits. Any thoughts or experiences?


Two things, both of which I believe in:

Endorphins, which are chemicals released during exercise which create a high feeling and are generally great for the mind.

Energy pathways, which is related to reflexology. Basically by many forms of practice, such as precisely controlled motor movements and spiritual practices like meditation and Reiki, your body can become more attuned to energy fields around us all as well as energy flowing more freely within the body.


Good point about endorphins. Could be a factor in the sensations I experienced. I will have to research reflexology. Thanks for the feedback. If you don't mind my asking, why do you believe as you do? Logic? Intuition?


Well for me Endorphins are easily provable and a shared opinion in the experiences of many,

I realise that practices like martial arts can help us attain some sort of inner peace. I think this is because part of the practice is about being calm, being aware of your surroundings, using well timed coordinated movements. I also believe, that through person experience and through hearing the experiences of others that we may be feeling energy which is emitting from various sources like people and other living things. Logic would tell me that the sensations you are feeling may have been the result of becoming immersed in the moment, making yourself more able to feel these energies.

A simplified way of putting is saying that our minds detect energy and affect the world in some sort of way.

What I described above is a view shared with many Buddhists and Spiritual people. It goes into a lot more detail than that but I am afraid I can't describe it much better than that at the moment.

This film looks at it in more detail
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/what-the ... o-we-know/


Hello Patrick. Sorry to take so long to respond. I am in the process of watching the video on the other end of your link. As always, I am not going to assume that all of the ideas being presented are completely true or all completely false. I am finding the documentary to be thought provoking and well worth my time to view.

I will post again after I finish watching all of the segments.

I was raised in a religion called Christian Science, which I now do not accept (in total at least.) I am now an agnostic. Einstein was curios enough about this religion to read about it at length. Christian Science was not really based on real science (as you might have guessed) but it did make some of the same claims made by some of those interviewed in the video. I like the fact that many of the ideas in the video are not presented as dogma (as I now believe Christian Science is) but theories based on science.

Thanks for the link to the video, Patrick. I am enjoying it. I will recommend it to those people I know who might enjoy it as well. I will watch the embedded videos afterward and look forward to seeing them.


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Last edited by Rocky on 28 Mar 2011, 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rocky
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28 Mar 2011, 4:19 am

Accidental duplicate post. See below.


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Last edited by Rocky on 29 Mar 2011, 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rocky
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28 Mar 2011, 4:19 am

AceOfSpades wrote:
Meh chi is BS, and whatever is true about it is simply just fact interpreted in a mystical way.


You might be right. I have not closed my mind on the subject. I do not believe, or disbelieve. It (or my belief in it) might have benefits to me regardless of the reality (or unreality) of its nature.

How can you be sure? Do you assume that everything that can't be proven is unreal? Discoveries in science happened because someone in the past considered something unproven at the time to be worth investigating. i do believe (as Carl Sagan said) that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. That is why I do not assume it is real. Sometimes speculation for the sake of conversation is useful.

I am not trying to be confrontational. I want a dialog, if you are interested in having one. Thanks for your response in any case.


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PatrickNeville
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28 Mar 2011, 7:41 am

Glad you are enjoying what you have seen so far.

Rocky wrote:
, I am not going to assume that all of the ideas being presented are completely true or all completely false.


Your approach is the best way to look at it. Even though I've looked at the videos and some relating research I'd be silly to claim each individual one to absolutely true. I think there is truth to them and that there are things we have not learnt to quantify, but as you said it is hard to say for certain.


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Rocky
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28 Mar 2011, 7:59 am

PatrickNeville wrote:
Glad you are enjoying what you have seen so far.

Rocky wrote:
, I am not going to assume that all of the ideas being presented are completely true or all completely false.


Your approach is the best way to look at it. Even though I've looked at the videos and some relating research I'd be silly to claim each individual one to absolutely true. I think there is truth to them and that there are things we have not learnt to quantify, but as you said it is hard to say for certain.


I liked the fact that there was more than one person presenting their thoughts on the subjects covered. Some seemed more speculative than others. Most of it seemed to be reasonable theories involving speculation based on what is currently known about quantum physics. They all seemed reasonable, eloquent, and (as far as what little I know about quantum physics) knowledgeable. They did a good job of explaining to us laymen the basis for their theories. I will be interested in learning who these people are after I finish watching.


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Rocky
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28 Mar 2011, 9:03 am

I just finished watching "What the bleep do we know? (a journey down the rabbit hole.)" This was the video on link provided by Patrick. I enjoyed it. It was very original, kept me interested and gave some fascinating food for thought. The people being interviewed are mostly scientists with impressive credentials. There are a few who are not scientists as well. If you want to see who they are before watching, the final segment lists them in the final credits.

I recognize that some of these people might be motivated only by possible book sales, but they came across as genuine to me. They all seemed like they believed what they were saying.

My point is not that I believed it all, but that it is worth seeing. Thanks again, Patrick!


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PatrickNeville
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28 Mar 2011, 9:29 am

I am happy you enjoyed it. You watched any of the other films?


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Rocky
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28 Mar 2011, 3:20 pm

PatrickNeville wrote:
I am happy you enjoyed it. You watched any of the other films?
Just about to start the one about Thai Chi.

You mentioned Buddhism. I have found this religion to be of interest. I do not accept the idea of any one religion to be correct about everything. However, Buddhism has more aspects of interest to me (in its teachings) than any other I have come across. It seems to me that to become a member of any religion requires a belief in a god, and the divine inspiration of that god by its founder. However, that does not rule out all of the teachings of all religions. I know that Buddhism does not include a god in its teachings. @Patrick- are you a Buddhist? Are you an agnostic? Atheist? I hope you don't mind my asking. I would be interested in this for anyone participating in this thread.


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28 Mar 2011, 3:36 pm

Hmmmm I don't know what I am. I am possibly an Atheist, Spiritualist and Buddhist. I'd be silly to say I am a total Buddhist but I do find their beliefs interesting, because they make complete sense. Buddhists are Atheists anyway. They don't believe in a deity.

The basics of Buddhism teaches us to acknowledge the causes of suffering (desire, negativity, sadness etc) and shows us that we can retain inner peace by not negative events control our lives.

Better explanation:
.http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... hs_1.shtml


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Rocky
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29 Mar 2011, 1:00 am

PatrickNeville wrote:
Hmmmm I don't know what I am. I am possibly an Atheist, Spiritualist and Buddhist. I'd be silly to say I am a total Buddhist but I do find their beliefs interesting, because they make complete sense. Buddhists are Atheists anyway. They don't believe in a deity.

The basics of Buddhism teaches us to acknowledge the causes of suffering (desire, negativity, sadness etc) and shows us that we can retain inner peace by not negative events control our lives.

Better explanation:
.http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... hs_1.shtml


I like the concept of seeking a balance that Buddhism encourages. I read the Buddha Vacana a bit. Studying Buddhism may be one way of being an atheist without becoming too cynical and bitter, as some atheists seem to be.

The terminology gets fuzzy. When I call myself an agnostic, I mean I do not believe in a god, but I do not rule out the possibility. If God exists, I do not believe it is a sentient being, but instead, possibly would be defined as the principles that reality is ruled by. I think I read that Schopenhauer defined "God" in a similar way. When Einstein referred to "God" I think he was thinking along these lines.


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