Ronald Reagan
It always amazes me how a man who cut taxes for the richest Americans while hiking taxes for the vast majority of Americans (the payroll tax hike), in effect redistributing wealth upwards, can be an icon. It's especially amazing given that Reagan's presidency is correlated with an obscenely growing government debt ratio and industrial decline. But his foreign policy seems the most inane to me and I think everyone should have this quote burned into their brains, as it's so representative of Teflon Ron's contempt for democracy abroad.
Spitting Image wrote:
Journalist: Mr President, what would you're reaction be to a Labour Victory over Mrs. Thatcher?
Ronald Reagan: Well, ... if that happened, we as Americans would respond in a normal, responsible way to a democratic election in another country.
Journalist: Thank you, sir.
Ronald Reagan: We would send in the CIA to help round up all the socialists and execute them inside a football stadium.
Ronald Reagan: Well, ... if that happened, we as Americans would respond in a normal, responsible way to a democratic election in another country.
Journalist: Thank you, sir.
Ronald Reagan: We would send in the CIA to help round up all the socialists and execute them inside a football stadium.
Classic.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du-nfWPSNlk[/youtube]
georgewbush wrote:
Reagan was a great president, revived the nation from its era of malaise and ended the Cold War.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yovzZkf6OFQ&feature=related[/youtube]
Master_Pedant wrote:
It always amazes me how a man who cut taxes for the richest Americans while hiking taxes for the vast majority of Americans (the payroll tax hike), in effect redistributing wealth upwards, can be an icon.
He was the forerunner of the celebrity president. A president where he was nothing more than a face and it was his administration that actually ran things.
And that history is remembering him otherwise is telling you who is winning that war.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
Master_Pedant wrote:
It always amazes me how a man who cut taxes for the richest Americans while hiking taxes for the vast majority of Americans (the payroll tax hike), in effect redistributing wealth upwards, can be an icon. It's especially amazing given that Reagan's presidency is correlated with an obscenely growing government debt ratio and industrial decline. But his foreign policy seems the most inane to me and I think everyone should have this quote burned into their brains, as it's so representative of Teflon Ron's contempt for democracy abroad.
For a brief period the Regan policies broke the grip of the Carter stagflation. Apparently you forgot to mention the stagflation. In the long haul the Regan policy was to deliver $1.75 worth of government for every $1.00 collected in taxes, so it lead to the chronic deficit we have been suffering for the last 22 years or so.
ruveyn
ruveyn wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
It always amazes me how a man who cut taxes for the richest Americans while hiking taxes for the vast majority of Americans (the payroll tax hike), in effect redistributing wealth upwards, can be an icon. It's especially amazing given that Reagan's presidency is correlated with an obscenely growing government debt ratio and industrial decline. But his foreign policy seems the most inane to me and I think everyone should have this quote burned into their brains, as it's so representative of Teflon Ron's contempt for democracy abroad.
For a brief period the Regan policies broke the grip of the Carter stagflation. Apparently you forgot to mention the stagflation. In the long haul the Regan policy was to deliver $1.75 worth of government for every $1.00 collected in taxes, so it lead to the chronic deficit we have been suffering for the last 22 years or so.
ruveyn
Not defending Carter but Reagan's policies have shown to create little more than long-term stagflation to the point of an economic recession while inflation still rages out of control. To call Reagan an improvement is like saying alcohol is a great way to keep you from freezing to death: you feel better in the short term but it kills you in the long term.
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
georgewbush wrote:
Reagan was a great president, revived the nation from its era of malaise and ended the Cold War.
His policies have lead to the worst deficits ever borne by the American people. We are still suffering from the Regan policy of underfunding the "benefits" he passed out to his corporate cronies. Regan fancied that he was returning to the basic American way, as fought for by Goldwater, but in fact he was more of a New Dealer. Regan was a former FDR Democrat and his mind set (such as it was) never got far away from the New Deal. Regan thought he was a conservative, but he was no such thing.
ruveyn
georgewbush wrote:
Oh, yes. I forgot. WrongPlanet is liberal fantasyland.
Actually, Wrong Planet cyclically flows up with racist, neo-fascist, far-right trolls come ever election season - so it kind of balances out the universe. As evidence, please see http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt140597.html
As for Regan (who really was the guy who wrote the Actor who Played President's lines) policies defeating stagflation, consensus in OPEC had collapsed (thanks, in part, to Sadam's militarism) and Regan "solved" the problem by creating a permanent bubble economy based on easy access to credit. That's not sustainable, fundamentally sound economic policy.
georgewbush wrote:
Reagan was a great president, revived the nation from its era of malaise and ended the Cold War.
In what parallel universe do you live?
Since you seem to be referring to Jimmy Carter's 1979 speech, take a look at his actual words (particularly the parts I've bolded for emphasis):
Jimmy Carter wrote:
The threat is nearly invisible in ordinary ways. It is a crisis of confidence. It is a crisis that strikes at the very heart and soul and spirit of our national will. We can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for our nation.
The erosion of our confidence in the future is threatening to destroy the social and the political fabric of America.
The confidence that we have always had as a people is not simply some romantic dream or a proverb in a dusty book that we read just on the Fourth of July.
It is the idea which founded our nation and has guided our development as a people. Confidence in the future has supported everything else -- public institutions and private enterprise, our own families, and the very Constitution of the United States. Confidence has defined our course and has served as a link between generations. We've always believed in something called progress. We've always had a faith that the days of our children would be better than our own.
Our people are losing that faith, not only in government itself but in the ability as citizens to serve as the ultimate rulers and shapers of our democracy. As a people we know our past and we are proud of it. Our progress has been part of the living history of America, even the world. We always believed that we were part of a great movement of humanity itself called democracy, involved in the search for freedom, and that belief has always strengthened us in our purpose. But just as we are losing our confidence in the future, we are also beginning to close the door on our past.
In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities, and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns. But we've discovered that owning things and consuming things does not satisfy our longing for meaning. We've learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose.
The symptoms of this crisis of the American spirit are all around us. For the first time in the history of our country a majority of our people believe that the next five years will be worse than the past five years. Two-thirds of our people do not even vote. The productivity of American workers is actually dropping, and the willingness of Americans to save for the future has fallen below that of all other people in the Western world.
As you know, there is a growing disrespect for government and for churches and for schools, the news media, and other institutions. This is not a message of happiness or reassurance, but it is the truth and it is a warning.
These changes did not happen overnight. They've come upon us gradually over the last generation, years that were filled with shocks and tragedy.
We were sure that ours was a nation of the ballot, not the bullet, until the murders of John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. We were taught that our armies were always invincible and our causes were always just, only to suffer the agony of Vietnam. We respected the presidency as a place of honor until the shock of Watergate.
We remember when the phrase "sound as a dollar" was an expression of absolute dependability, until ten years of inflation began to shrink our dollar and our savings. We believed that our nation's resources were limitless until 1973, when we had to face a growing dependence on foreign oil.
These wounds are still very deep. They have never been healed. Looking for a way out of this crisis, our people have turned to the Federal government and found it isolated from the mainstream of our nation's life. Washington, D.C., has become an island. The gap between our citizens and our government has never been so wide. The people are looking for honest answers, not easy answers; clear leadership, not false claims and evasiveness and politics as usual.
What you see too often in Washington and elsewhere around the country is a system of government that seems incapable of action. You see a Congress twisted and pulled in every direction by hundreds of well-financed and powerful special interests. You see every extreme position defended to the last vote, almost to the last breath by one unyielding group or another. You often see a balanced and a fair approach that demands sacrifice, a little sacrifice from everyone, abandoned like an orphan without support and without friends.
Often you see paralysis and stagnation and drift. You don't like it, and neither do I. What can we do?
The erosion of our confidence in the future is threatening to destroy the social and the political fabric of America.
The confidence that we have always had as a people is not simply some romantic dream or a proverb in a dusty book that we read just on the Fourth of July.
It is the idea which founded our nation and has guided our development as a people. Confidence in the future has supported everything else -- public institutions and private enterprise, our own families, and the very Constitution of the United States. Confidence has defined our course and has served as a link between generations. We've always believed in something called progress. We've always had a faith that the days of our children would be better than our own.
Our people are losing that faith, not only in government itself but in the ability as citizens to serve as the ultimate rulers and shapers of our democracy. As a people we know our past and we are proud of it. Our progress has been part of the living history of America, even the world. We always believed that we were part of a great movement of humanity itself called democracy, involved in the search for freedom, and that belief has always strengthened us in our purpose. But just as we are losing our confidence in the future, we are also beginning to close the door on our past.
In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities, and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does, but by what one owns. But we've discovered that owning things and consuming things does not satisfy our longing for meaning. We've learned that piling up material goods cannot fill the emptiness of lives which have no confidence or purpose.
The symptoms of this crisis of the American spirit are all around us. For the first time in the history of our country a majority of our people believe that the next five years will be worse than the past five years. Two-thirds of our people do not even vote. The productivity of American workers is actually dropping, and the willingness of Americans to save for the future has fallen below that of all other people in the Western world.
As you know, there is a growing disrespect for government and for churches and for schools, the news media, and other institutions. This is not a message of happiness or reassurance, but it is the truth and it is a warning.
These changes did not happen overnight. They've come upon us gradually over the last generation, years that were filled with shocks and tragedy.
We were sure that ours was a nation of the ballot, not the bullet, until the murders of John Kennedy and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. We were taught that our armies were always invincible and our causes were always just, only to suffer the agony of Vietnam. We respected the presidency as a place of honor until the shock of Watergate.
We remember when the phrase "sound as a dollar" was an expression of absolute dependability, until ten years of inflation began to shrink our dollar and our savings. We believed that our nation's resources were limitless until 1973, when we had to face a growing dependence on foreign oil.
These wounds are still very deep. They have never been healed. Looking for a way out of this crisis, our people have turned to the Federal government and found it isolated from the mainstream of our nation's life. Washington, D.C., has become an island. The gap between our citizens and our government has never been so wide. The people are looking for honest answers, not easy answers; clear leadership, not false claims and evasiveness and politics as usual.
What you see too often in Washington and elsewhere around the country is a system of government that seems incapable of action. You see a Congress twisted and pulled in every direction by hundreds of well-financed and powerful special interests. You see every extreme position defended to the last vote, almost to the last breath by one unyielding group or another. You often see a balanced and a fair approach that demands sacrifice, a little sacrifice from everyone, abandoned like an orphan without support and without friends.
Often you see paralysis and stagnation and drift. You don't like it, and neither do I. What can we do?
So tell me again how all of these problems have been fixed? Or, what, did Reagan fix them, and then they just came back under Clinton and Obama?
skafather84 wrote:
Not defending Carter but Reagan's policies have shown to create little more than long-term stagflation to the point of an economic recession while inflation still rages out of control. To call Reagan an improvement is like saying alcohol is a great way to keep you from freezing to death: you feel better in the short term but it kills you in the long term.
Jimmy Carter was an immediate disaster. Trust me, please. I lived through his administration. It was a very "down" period and Jimmuh was the quintessential looser. There was the stagflation, a result of Lyndon Johnson's policies and the dreadful yearlong drama of the Iranian Hostage Crisis. There were the long lines at the gas stations and Jimmuh appearing before the cameras wearing his sweater telling us to keep our thermostats down to 65 degrees. He was a poor president. Regan was in the immediate sense a does of "feel good". Morning in America again. Not so good in the long run. As I mentioned in another post the country is still suffering from chronic underfunding (or over extension) of government.
ruveyn
ruveyn wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Not defending Carter but Reagan's policies have shown to create little more than long-term stagflation to the point of an economic recession while inflation still rages out of control. To call Reagan an improvement is like saying alcohol is a great way to keep you from freezing to death: you feel better in the short term but it kills you in the long term.
Jimmy Carter was an immediate disaster. Trust me, please. I lived through his administration. It was a very "down" period and Jimmuh was the quintessential looser. There was the stagflation, a result of Lyndon Johnson's policies and the dreadful yearlong drama of the Iranian Hostage Crisis. There were the long lines at the gas stations and Jimmuh appearing before the cameras wearing his sweater telling us to keep our thermostats down to 65 degrees. He was a poor president. Regan was in the immediate sense a does of "feel good". Morning in America again. Not so good in the long run. As I mentioned in another post the country is still suffering from chronic underfunding (or over extension) of government.
ruveyn
Reagan was a dose of "feel good" like heroin is a dose of "feel good".
_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823
?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson
ruveyn wrote:
There was the stagflation, a result of Lyndon Johnson's policies.
ruveyn
ruveyn
That is something I've been wondering about. Why did we have stagflation in the 1970s, but nothing quite so similar now? I keep thinking that hyper-inflation should be just around the corner, but it never comes.

