Need advice from female Aspies

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Thank you, in advance, to anyone willing to provide me with their opinion(s) on this very important matter. 

First and foremost, I am an NT - and I am in love with a wonderful woman who I believe is an Aspie.  We have been dating for 13 months and, for the past 6-months, I have essentially been living with her at her home (I sold my house, I am storing my belongings in her basement, but technically moved in with another friend of mine).  I probably stay at her place 5-days a week. 

I didn't know what Aspergers was until 2-weeks ago, but I am convinced my girlfriend is an Aspie. I have been very good friends with a high-functioning autistic male since we were 12-years old (we're now 39), so I am very familiar with Autism in general. With my friend (Paul) it is very easy to notice his unique social abnormalities, but with my girlfriend they are completely invisible. She is an introvert, but not the least bit shy. Her social skills (in public) are better than many NT's. Her Myers Briggs is a strong INTJ, and she has an amazing career as a chemical engineer with a very successful and large company. She is 31. 

I will share my concern and dilemma (below), but first I want to share some of the reasons I am certain she is an Aspie. I would prefer to detail out her probable symptoms, but am compelled to summarize for the sake of brevity.

We met online and fell in love within just a few weeks.  She is kind to everyone, but has very few friends. Additionally, most of her friends are from her college days and live 1000's of miles away. She is very close to her siblings, but rarely calls them. She calls her parents even less - says she doesn't want to disturb them (but I've met them, and I know they enjoy hearing from her). 

I manage to upset her frequently, but I never see it coming and I don't understand why she is upset until she tells me (if she does at all). When she gets upset, it can be days before she wants to be around me or talk with me.  For example, she can get upset at my facial expressions (which are always sincere and kind).  She really dislikes it if I imply she is wrong, have a different opinion, or correct her (like how many innings are in a baseball game).  And, no matter how kind, non-egotistical, and gentle I am - she sees it as me "proving her wrong".  Regrettably, I often do not tell her if she is wrong about something any more. Thankfully, she's usually right (more than I am about stuff), but I can't imagine that's really what she wants (not knowing when she is wrong). 

She can go months without telling me that she loves me (claims she doesn't want to say it if she doesn't mean it, however she used to write it in texts on a weekly bases).

She and I picked out an engagement ring 6-weeks-ago that I purchased in her presence. She has not told me she loves me since, and I know not to tell her that I 'need' to hear it based upon past experience. 

If I tell her that she has hurt my feelings, she says she doesn't know why I'm even with her and says we should just break up. She tends to embellish any criticism I offer. And if I try and tell her it's okay, and that it's really not a big deal at all - it's too late. The damage is done. 

I spend a tremendous amount of energy and time trying to please her. I do nearly all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, buy her gifts, open doors, ask her what she wants to do, tell her she's my favorite person, that she is beautiful, make the decisions if I think that's what she wants, give her space when she needs it, only have sex when she initiates it (which is almost nonexistent now, and I don't think she likes it when I initiate it - though she used to).  I also do my best not to overwhelm her by doing too much. I do not want her to feel like she owes me anything and I want her to recognize I respect myself as much as I do her.

She is non nostalgic and non sentimental. Gets turned off if I tell her I need a hug, and hates it if she feels I'm crowding her in bed (I'm thin and 5 foot 9). She shows zero empathy for me emotionally.  

She trips a lot when jogging and is clumsy, but a great dancer. She hates team sports, but likes competing in triathlons and running races.

I am her second serious relationship. She was engaged to an African American (she and I are both white) in college, but she broke off the engagement a few months later. She says it's because she could tell that her family and his family didn't approve.  The person she was with prior to me was a married man, but I don't think that lasted more than a month and I think she is upset at herself for doing that.  We haven't discussed her past much, but says I'm only the second person she has ever introduced to her family.

She is very smart, but sometime lacks common sense when it come to priorities. She hates small talk, sarcasm, fails to understand a lot of jokes, hates loud noises, needs people to be literal, and can go hours without saying a word to me - even if we are in a car and nothing is wrong (It wasn't always this way, but it has been like this for several months now).   

These observations I mention above are only a few of her Aspie traits.  I could make a list just as long about all of her amazing attributes that are easy for me to comprehend, too.  

What was puzzling me for the longest time is the above traits came across to me as a selfish and mean person, yet she is incredibly warm hearted, sincere, giving, and kind. A complete contradiction - and I am certain that her friends and coworkers have not been exposed to the aspie traits I have listed above.  If she is an Aspie, she is very high functioning. 

Right now my biggest concern is I am certain she has never heard of aspergers. So, do I tell her of my suspicions?  I could be wrong and insult her, terribly. I could be right and still insult her. The way I see it, the only good that could come from her knowing is if she agrees, and knowing helps her to find some peace via an understanding of how she sees the world - and in turn this would help us grow as a couple.  

I can't stop thinking about this...

I am writing on an iPad - so this has been a slow and awkward process to write. I hope to write more, but would appreciate any thoughts or feelings "anyone" has and is willing to share - based upon my incomplete and cryptic explanations above.

Thoughts...



    

Ah...

You say you don't want her to feel she owes you anything; I'm afraid you're getting your wish. She's certainly acting as if she owes you nothing.

I don't want to be too blunt- I realise you've taken a lot of effort to write all this. But your girlfriend needs a kick up the ass (metaphorically- I'm not condoning violence)

So do you actually, for letting another human turn you into their servant! Aspergers is not terminal cancer. It's not a carte blanche to act like a tool and a person with aspergers does not need to be waited on hand and foot. If anything, because of the nature of the condition we need the people who care about us to point out when we're being unreasonable and it doesn't sound as if you've been over-critical so far.

My advice to you would be to reread what you've written and any behaviour that you would not put up wih from a 'normal' girlfriend, don't put up with from her either. If you still find yourself allowing everything, then imagine you are giving advice to your best friend instead.

(Just out of curiousity, what is her position in her own family? How do they treat her?)

She sounds more like a sociopath than an Aspie. Just because someone is literal and needs their space doesn't mean they have Asperger's. If she "lets" you do all the cooking, cleaning, shopping, and gift-buying and conversation starting, and still gives you the cold shoulder and al;ways has to be right, that's not Asperger's. That's "Run away, you stupid freaking moron!!" I wish I could say it nicer, but I've seen this same exact story before. He is miserable as hell, but is too afraid to get a divorce. If you want to take that risk, go ahead. Make my day. Just know that there isn't a happy spouse on Earth who is married to a sociopath.

Thank you for the replies. I found found the question of "would I put up with this behavior from a normal girlfriend" to be most thought provoking.  I would not put up with it indefinitely, nor would I want to be married to her if "this is it" - irregardless of her psychology.  I agree that being an aspie is not a license to be ruthless or heartless. However, I will give an aspie a bit more of a break when it comes to misunderstandings.

Again, thank you for the replies. Personally, I found most of what you shared to be emotionally common and easily anticipated. I was hoping for some long-shot and out of the box possibilities and/or solutions that I myself hadn't already postulated.  The majority of your opinions and ideas (above) are the same feelings that I myself immediately formulated. Still, I am intrigued by the "tell it like it is" aspect of those effected with Aspergers.        

I do not have a large ego, and I poses no desire to teach someone I love a lesson. However, I also love myself and do not 'need' her to survive. I just want to help her grow in the empathy area if that is possible. From what I know (which isn't much), this likely is not a possibility for her. Nonetheless, for now I'd rather try and fail as opposed to just walking away. Like I said, I am not certain she has Aspergers; but based upon my knowledge of her  idiosyncrasies, and limited understanding of what Aspergers really is, I believe she has it.

She is a middle child of three. One older sister and one younger brother. She sees her sister as her best friend, but would go days without talking to her too if she got upset with her. She loves her brother to death, gives him the world, and has never been upset with him. She lives several states away from both, so only sees them a few times per year. Talks to them about once a week. Talks to her mom about once a month, and her dad hardly at all.  Also -  She was a music prodigy (played violin in a college orchestra while in junior high). She stopped playing in college because she didn't like being first chair and felt she would be better off preparing for her career.  I've asked her to play for me, but says she has to practice first. So - I've never heard her play. 

I was told by three friends that I might be on the spectrum. They did this because they cared for me and they had watched my social challenges and wanted me to have answers as to why I was having them.

It was a shock.
Was I mad?
A little bit.
But then I realized what they said made sense. Even when I read about autism / Aspergers in school, I could see some of the traits in myself.

Maybe have her meet your friend that is on the spectrum. You could let her read a book on Aspergers / HFA to help her get to know your friend more, and if she comes to you with questions of whether some of the content applies to her, that's a possible way to start the conversation.

If you do just decide to bring it up:

Tell her that you love her for who she is and you are not telling her this to change her - rather to help her understand herself and advocate for herself / her needs.

Tell her that a diagnosis does not make her lesser in your eyes (and REALLY MEAN IT aka get to a place where you mean it, but I get the sense you're there)

Support her as she would probably go through a grief process of realizing she is not normal. It does take adjusting how you think about your identity post-diagnosis as an adult.

Remind her of her strengths.

Hope this helps!

There's an expression; 'if you hear hooves outside, it's more likely to be a horse than a zebra' (proximity to zoo/Africa not withstanding). I gave you the 'emotionally common' answer because it seems the most likely judging by what you have told us. I could give you a great work of polite fiction about why she's acting the way she is (she secretely loves you but is too shy to show it yadiyadiya), but I think that would be doing you a disservice.

If that's the sort of thing you're looking for though, have a hunt through this subforum; there's plenty of previous threads from people in similar situations (usually women with AS partners/husbands) and some of the advice may be more palatable

Thank you kusther. That's a very clever and kind idea! I like it.

Thank you too, Lene. And honestly - don't worry about doing me a disservice. I'm using this forum as a "think tank" where I'm the CEO. I'm going to make my own call, but have no quams with stealing any brilliant ideas should anyone come up with any. I'm less worried about me than I am with her. I'm going to be fine no matter what the outcome is. I'm more concerned with her. She is a fantastic person and this just isn't right. I'm a fantastic read of people, but she has me baffled -and I'm confident she's not using me or playing games. She's dreadfully honest.

I apologize in advance if I come across as harsh. I'm not intending to.

There is nothing wrong with proving someone wrong if they are wrong as long as it is done tactfully. If she's wrong I think you should just say "I think it's (whatever)" or "I heard it's (whatever) and so on. If she is going to get mad one way or another then let her get mad. She is a scientist, she should be able to handle truth.



If she loves you then why would she not mean it when she says it? Does she only love you some times? If she has AS she might be confusing loving someone for feeling an extreme amount of emotion for them at that point in time. Or she might not see the point in telling you something so often if she knows you already know it. However I have to wonder if perhaps her feelings for you have unfortunately fizzled, or perhaps it could be that she still loves you, but people with AS don't do well with change and new social influences in their daily life. Most people with AS need a lot of space and a lot of alone time and you living with her might be stressing her, despite your efforts not to.

I've heard of some married couples with AS who sleep in different rooms.



I don't think your need is unreasonable unless you need to hear it multiple times per day. See above.



Honestly the relationship should not be based around you constantly doing things to try to please her. That is not a relationship that is fair to you, and though these things you do for her are well intentioned, they are likely misplaced intentions and might actually be part of the problem. Most women like a little help around the house but acting like a man servant often makes women feel suffocated and doesn't really attend to women in the way they really need to be attended to.

Stop buying her gifts unless there is actually an occasion to buy her a gift, like her birthday.
Stop telling her she is your favorite person all the time.
Stop telling her that she is beautiful all the time.
Don't always ask her what she wants to do. Sometimes, tell her what you want to do and ask if she'd like to join you.

As for the cooking, shopping, and cleaning, if you are essentially living there then you should do some things and she should do some things.



I actually think you are overwhelming her by doing all the things I told you not to do above. If she does have AS, she probably will need a lot of space, but most women actually get overwhelmed by those types of things and guys who do those types of things usually have relationships that fail and quickly become bitter and jaded because they don't understand why those things aren't getting them what they want. It's called "Nice guy syndrome".

Women generally value deep conversations over frequent random gifts.



Usually when men who have made themselves man servants say things like "I don't want her to feel like she owes me anything" what they mean is that they worship her like a goddess and don't want her to ever have to feel in debt to them. In that case, I think they overlook the importance of allowing others to pay them back for perceived debts.

There is a homeless lady in my neighborhood and I asked her if she needed something to keep dry one rainy night. She asked for a larger umbrella so I bought her one. She insisted on paying me back for it then and there. I didn't want to take her money but it was important to her that I did. It helped her maintain her dignity and it made her feel like a good person to be able to reciprocate a kind gesture to someone who helped her.

In relationships, you need to allow your partner to do something for you on occasion. It makes them feel important and, well, like your partner.

But I think what you actually meant was, you don't want her to feel like she has to love you in return for the things you do. But based on what you have already said, I think you hope that she will love you in return for these things.



I would first stop doing the things I told you to stop doing. They aren't helping, they are probably hurting, it isn't fair to you to do so much and you need to be more secure in relationships either way.

I would also sit down and have a talk with her. I think you really need to find out if things are just moving too fast for her and she isn't ready to live with someone/get married yet, or if she just doesn't feel the way she used to.

Chronos,

That is brilliantly said. Thank you. That's information and perspective I did not possess. I think you nailed it, especially considering the limited information you were provided. I recognize every person / relationship is different, but I believe there is an awful lot of truth in what you wrote. I probably do smother her despite my conscious efforts not to. I will work on that, intelligently, kindly, and selfishly.

As far as the "I love you" comments, I actually came up with the same theories as yourself. Each hypothesis you constructed is entirely possible, or maybe even a combination thereof.

Thank you so much. You were not harsh at all. It was perfect.

I doNt know if others have suggested it but I don't think fromnyour description she has aspergers. She sounds quite depressed to me. It's important to remember depression doesn't always come across as wailing sadness and suicide. Lots of the things you find problematic areclassic signs of depression.

Also this may come across as rude but you sound quite clingy. Many of your issueswith her sound to me more like problems of security for you. You can't change her or who she is and you shouldn't want to but if your expectations of a relationship aren't being met then you need to wonder ifyoure with the right person. It reads to me like a codependent relationship and if you're both happy then there's no problem. If someone is unhappy then it needs to be discussed before therelationship goes into complete breakdown.

Regrettably, I am most certainly co-dependent. I work very hard to not let this trait of mine become an issue. I do NOT want to be "clingy" for a million different reasons, but if you're getting the impression that I am - then she undoubted feels the same. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

I do not think she is depressed, but I could be wrong.

That's a good point. I got carried away by how ungrateful she was acting, but maybe it is because she's trying to show her discomfort. She's not off the hook in my book though even if this is the case; there are far politer ways to let someone know than this.



You might be a little bit unfortunately. I think you should try taking Chronos' advice (re: not giving gifts all the time etc.) and see if that has any effect. If it does turn out that she does like the attention and is just taking you for granted, then distancing yourself slightly may also get her to realise that that can't go on.

I actually don't give her "gifts" too often. Pretty much only for birthdays and things like that, but I do do an awful lot for her even though she hardly ever asks. I think she spends as much money on me as I do her, and she is letting me store my things in her basement. My gifts are primarily gifts of service and kindness.

I should mention that I often get mixed signals when trying to decide if I should stay at her place or my roomates. She says she likes it when I'm there, but it often doesn't feel like it. And if I imply that I might stay at my roomates, I get the sense she tries to turn it around by saying that SHE is the one asking me to give her alone time that night (almost like she is avoiding any rejection or trying to be in control). It's hard to explain, but that's the real sense I get.

As an aside, has anyone taken this test (link below)? If so, do think it has "any" credibility at all or is it completely worthless?

Okay - I can't post a link yet. But if you google "aspergers test" it comes up first. It's titled -- Wired 9.12: Take The AQ Test

I agree with this. Your description of your GF reminds me very much of myself. I was diagnosed in my 40s with Asperger's, just last summer. Having undiagnosed AS almost destroyed my marriage, because my alexithymia/difficulty in communicating emotions I really did feel made my husband feel I didn't care, that I was selfish and only concerned for myself. Nothing could have been further from the truth. I'm also a very high achiever academically/career-wise, but my ability to "show people in my life I care" is severely impaired. I also have bad sensory dysfunction which interferes with wanting to be touched, sometimes more than others. I am horrible at taking criticism, not so much on a professional level but when it's in my personal life I cringe and I feel like I'm constantly being told I'm not good enough and I'm worthless. I finally know what is wrong, and it's a good thing. I self-diagnosed before I got my official diagnosis, but that's because neurology is my career. If your GF is unfamiliar with it, maybe you should find a way to bring it up. It may save her (and you, if you stay with her) a lot of grief.

~Kate

Kate,

Thank you very much for taking the time to write that and for sharing your experience with me. I am leaning towards talking with her about it.

I would agree with others that she is not Autistic on the basis of being weird alone, and if she is, there is a huge difference in accommodating someone of anomalous neurology and "walking on eggshells", which, if you don't even feel free to voice that she might be mistaken factually, sounds like what the situation is.

However

it might be helpful if you were at least looking and could keep in mind a female-specific list of Aspergers traits- many of the women here (like me) would be a "borderline" diagnosee if one at all using the standard diagnostic criteria, because they were developed by exclusively studying Autistic MALES.
Female Aspie Traits