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Perspectives on autism rights
Pro cure, autistics are equal to NT's 24%  24%  [ 12 ]
Pro cure, autistics are inferior to NT's 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Anti cure, autistics are equal to NT's 47%  47%  [ 24 ]
Anti cure, autistics are superior to NT's 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
Cure LFA only 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 51

OJani
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07 Jun 2011, 2:59 pm

Pardon my bragging, I'm not a native speaker and I comprehend 90% what ci writes.


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nostromo
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07 Jun 2011, 3:44 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
I want there to be a way forward. I want there to be a way to make it possible for a LFA kid somewhere to learn how to talk and pick up a useful job skill.

Thats what I would like too.

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
LFA is to Aspergers Syndrome as an orange grove is to box of Tang: it really is one of the most miserable, troublesome conditions in the whole, wide world.

I'm not entirely sure about it being miserable. Much of what we see of the manifestation of whats called LFA (by some) seems to me to be a reaction to the environment, and interactions with the world, not the condition itself. With my son to a large extent I know what makes him happy, and what he enjoys and what he doesn't, so I have things to work with there.



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07 Jun 2011, 4:34 pm

acceptance would be enough of a cure



ci
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07 Jun 2011, 4:36 pm

Acceptance should also includes people want cure. Seeking a cure does not mean a person is rejected but it can be twisted into that for political reasons.


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wavefreak58
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07 Jun 2011, 4:43 pm

ci wrote:
Acceptance should also includes people want cure. Seeking a cure does not mean a person is rejected but it can be twisted into that for political reasons.


There is nothing that exists which cannot, for political reasons, be twisted into what it is not.


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ci
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07 Jun 2011, 4:44 pm

The ends up as a foot in the mouth no matter what. :lol:

The intent of the statement is people are political animals and cure has been made political.


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WilliamWDelaney
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07 Jun 2011, 4:45 pm

nostromo wrote:
I'm not entirely sure about it being miserable. Much of what we see of the manifestation of whats called LFA (by some) seems to me to be a reaction to the environment, and interactions with the world, not the condition itself. With my son to a large extent I know what makes him happy, and what he enjoys and what he doesn't, so I have things to work with there.
For me, it always helped if someone near me would simply recognize the fact that I found a particular noise to be bothersome, such as by asking, "is that noise really getting to you?" Just having the sense of, "wow, someone cares that I'm going insane here," leads me to realize that the people around me aren't doing it just to torment me, and I feel better. I'm still losing my mind, but I sort of feel better about it.



draelynn
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07 Jun 2011, 7:30 pm

Whatever floats your boat.

If the 'magic pill' were made available tomorrow, if you wanted to take it - more power to you. If you choose to remain who you are - more power to you too.

The only grey area I see is what about all those kids who will never have a choice? How many parents would opt to NOT take that magic pill and make their kids 'normal'? My guess is, not many to none at all.

We are a shortsighted species that reacts to the here and now and almost, without fail, refuses to learn from its past mistakes. If there was a magic pill no one would stop to ponder the long range consequences. Thus is how many tales of deals with the devil begin... never seeing the deception in being granted ones fondest wish...

All philosophical musings aside - this is all conjecture. We are nowhere near close to this discussion in actuality.



ci
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07 Jun 2011, 7:44 pm

Magic pill is no cure. You can plant a magic bean like in a fairy tale and suddenly manifest a whole conjecture or in general scenario. Also for people that choose to be treated with medication that does not make them inferior or to be judged. The idea of cure and autism is I don't think like other medical subjects. The problem herein lies with and between two concerns.

1. The reality of disability as it is (functionalism).

2. The cultural exclusion of difference (diversity).

Therein between and the rectification of the two concerns (1,2) as written is where the solutions reside and can be applied. It's not really entirely about acceptance but only in part. It's about acceptance and inclusion when applicable. Tolerance being a problem is not the entire problem but intolerance is a problem and does make matters worse. Remembering it is a spectrum we can denote that certain factors of the grand problem whether socio-culturally or of the medical modality apply more so as potential positive outcomes then otherwise depending upon individual.

Centering this social problem on special interest pharmaceutics is and was a mistake of the pride anti-cure movement.


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draelynn
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07 Jun 2011, 8:14 pm

I see a difference between 'cure' and 'treatment of symptoms'.

I think it all depends on who is using the word. And herein lies the 'debate'. What does each individual MEAN by the word 'cure'? How does everyone interpret the use of the word 'cure' when they see it in a discussion on this particular issue? When I say 'cure' does it have the same meaning as when you say 'cure', or when Autism Speaks says 'cure' or when Great Aunt Bessie says 'cure'?

Cure, to me, suggests the total removal of the affliction keeping one from being 'normal'. This total fix option is the 'magic bullet' approach in my thinking. And it is fantasy.

If we are actually talking about symptomatic treatment to improve functionality, I seriously doubt anyone would have a negative opinion of that course of action whether they chose to utilize it for themselves or not. Does 'cure' mean improving symptoms to the point of 'normal' functionality? Does something like skills training count towards this goal even if the change is only a facade and hasn't changed the way the autistic mind thinks? Is the appearance of 'normal' enough to be considered a 'cure'?

Does a 'cure' also include a cultural epiphany that removes bias, discrimination and exclusion? Would that alone be considered a cure? For some, it may fix many of their 'problems' so it could be the 'cure' for them. Fix everyone elses negative attitudes to improve the lives of - well, just about everybody. Again, past action dictates future action - its not bloody likely that our species will evolve out of its exclusionary biases any time soon. Another fantasy - at least in the short term.

This is far from a black and white issue.



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07 Jun 2011, 9:56 pm

"Cure, to me, suggests the total removal of the affliction keeping one from being 'normal'. This total fix option is the 'magic bullet' approach in my thinking. And it is fantasy. "

Exactly - my understanding is the whole basis of this topic is THAT fantasy situation. I wouldn't call it "affliction" but that's just semantics.

The proposition is very simply what it is - what if autism could be replaced with NT - and it is deliberately fantastic and indeed totally HYPOTHETICAL - and I think that as a "cure" it's implicit that basic personality and gifts would be left intact - if it effectively partially lobotomised people then it simply wouldn't BE a "cure" would it?.

I'm actually having trouble seeing most of the semantics going on as being anything but disingenuous - I'm willing to grant tho that if I have AS it might be mild enough that I'm misreading more severely AS people's true intent.

To me I'm NOT the one who's strange - but I recognise that making my way in the world would be much easier and better if I was the SAME as all those other people out there!


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07 Jun 2011, 11:20 pm

I didn't answer this poll because I have two thoughts on it. First, I see many kids in our autism support group who I believe would benefit with a cure. But who am I to say---maybe they are perfectly content. But just from my observation I believe they could benefit. However, these are the kids on the lower part of the autism spectrum---the part that appears to have many severe challenges. Second, I am content with being autistic because I enjoy the special intense interests it has given me, and the musical savant talent it has given me. Although Asperger's (or HFA as my therapist said I might have) presents challenges, for me it also presents a lot of joy. So for my personal being, I do not want a cure for my autism.


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ci
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07 Jun 2011, 11:29 pm

It is interesting the merging of cure and the self when thinking of it. Yet to be born as one is and not knowing otherwise. Still yet cure seems to be about functionalism, quality of life and the ability to do as one desires which is fundamental freedom. If someone was born unable then they may be able to desire so called normal which is vast and want something from within it in their lives and way of being but if not realized because of differing ability to be aware not realizing the choice. I then think of the law and parents rights and despite the assertions of horrible brain surgery anti-cure advocates seem to resort to think that the laws must be followed unless people change them.

No one here has induced that the disability aspects of autism may be cured but there may be a significant difference that is seemingly innate which still may be intact to signify a diversity still existing when hardship is removed.


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nostromo
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08 Jun 2011, 1:18 am

ci wrote:
No one here has induced that the disability aspects of autism may be cured but there may be a significant difference that is seemingly innate which still may be intact to signify a diversity still existing when hardship is removed.

Exactly. This annoys me, cure opponents say or imply these things cannot be seperated. How do they think they can possibly KNOW that as if its gospel?!?! And if they can be seperated..then who wouldnt want that?



ci
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08 Jun 2011, 2:52 am

What is cure opponents.

1. Those who oppose cure.

2. Those who oppose a view of anti-cure.

It is perhaps a brain fart but special context rules may apply.


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08 Jun 2011, 2:55 am

nostromo wrote:
ci wrote:
No one here has induced that the disability aspects of autism may be cured but there may be a significant difference that is seemingly innate which still may be intact to signify a diversity still existing when hardship is removed.

Exactly. This annoys me, cure opponents say or imply these things cannot be seperated. How do they think they can possibly KNOW that as if its gospel?!?! And if they can be seperated..then who wouldnt want that?


What gives you reason to believe they can?

I don't believe a literal cure is possible in the near future (and I think claiming that cure just means "treatment" is so much semantic nonsense), so this discussion is only relevant in how much money goes into research to run down metaphorical blind alleys while more and more autistic children become autistic adults and have very little - if any - support.

To heck with it - society's broken, not me. I don't care if anyone else wants a cure or not. But it certainly would be nice if there were more accommodations. I shouldn't have to change my neurology to be a part of society (and, really, I don't have to, but my ability to participate is pretty limited).