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oldmantime
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17 Jun 2011, 7:13 pm

draelynn wrote:
There are quite a few shady greedy bastards giving the name 'holistic' a really bad name that is undeserved.

Don't shoot all 'holistic' practioners on site. Any bearing chelation therapies and miracles cures for a price - fire away.


there are good and bad docs on both ends of the medicinal spectrum. why does it always turn into a this vs that argument?



oldmantime
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17 Jun 2011, 7:20 pm

this is a neat example of another issue with vaccines


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com


http://www.freeyurko.bizland.com/buttram5.html

More recently, Alan received a report from an Australian hematologist, Michael D. Innis, MBBS, DTM&H, FRCPath, FRCPA, Honorary Consultant Haematologist, Princess Alexandria Hospital, Brisbane, Australia. He cites a highly likely contributory cause of death as intracranial hemorrhage resulting from failure of the liver to synthesize clotting factors in adequate amounts (although the causative connection between insufficient clotting factors and hemorrhage might not be immediately apparent, Dr. Innis has expertise in this area resulting from extensive research). He also emphasizes that bone underlying subperiosteal hemorrhage would become necrotic from loss of it's blood supply, and that a healing necrosis looks identical to a healing fracture at autopsy. Because appropriate post-mortem tests were not done, precise determination of all morbidity factors and their interactions is impossible. But the Innis report alone should be sufficient for Alan's vindication.

Finally, the DTaP vaccine in question is known to have come from a from a batch which ranks number one in deaths, number one in non-recoveries, and fourth in total events reported. Such batches are called "Hot Lots." One might wonder why, if batches can be so identified, SBS suspects aren't given some benefit of the doubt. One challenge is that such identification is based upon clinical observation, which courts will not accept. This seems odd, since the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) plainly indicates, as does the 1986 Congressional Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, that vaccine injuries are a fact of life. When people try for compensation under this Act, the court disallows VAERS information, asking for objective evidence, such as laboratory tests. Another challenge is, of course, that the requisite tests are nonexistent (see Addendum).

Alan Yurko could have plea bargained and received a lesser sentence. His refusal spoke to me of a man secure in his innocence. Also remarkable was the immediate and continuing loyalty, under soul-testing circumstances, of his wife, Francine. Following the trial, her diligent efforts secured complete medical records. Based on these records, there are, at this writing, 28 medical professionals willing to testify to Alan's innocence (and the number will grow). The disciplines represented at this writing include board-certified specialists in the fields of pathology, bone pathology, toxicology, hematology, ophthalmology, pediatrics, Ob/Gyn, and forensics, with some practitioners having dual specialties including pathology. As noted, an appeal has been filed.



oldmantime
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17 Jun 2011, 7:29 pm

Chronos wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
Ok, I just keep hearing from worried parents about this rubbish. I read somewhere about the whole vaccines cause autism is a PILE OF POO, and was wondering if anyone can link me to these facts, or facts about the guy who said it?

I want to make a video and spread it across the internet.


Well I did have a bad reaction to a vaccination, however I don't think it caused AS as my parents and I have concluded I was pretty much always this way and there seems to be a genetic component in my family.

However, the reaction meant I couldn't be completely immunized against pertussis because of the increased chance of a life threatening reaction to the vaccination. I had to rely on herd immunity not to contract it, which worked fine until people decided to stop vaccinating their kids.

A few years ago, there was a "cold" going around and I contracted it. After about two weeks the "cold" passed and I broke out into severe coughing fits. I would feel absolutely fine but every few days I'd have these severe fits where I would cough 50 times in a row, a good 30 times after I had no more air in my lungs and nearly passed out from them on a few occasions. These fits occurred with enough infrequency to dampen concern that they were related. One of these fits occurred in a crowded shopping mall, a good few days after I had had the last one and it was only then that I started to suspect I had pertussis.


given that they have to deactivate these viruses it is possible for a batch to not be totally pure. then there's also the issue that they can't over do it as the vaccine could be rendered ineffective.


also, i read a story a long while back about vaccines pushing a less harmful version of a virus or disease out of existence which somehow caused another more harmful version to become more prevalent. does anyone else recall such a news story? i can't remember what the name of the virus/disease was but i know it was on the cdc site.
I went to the doctors and he said it could be pertussis but it was too late to give me antibiotics and he didn't seem very concerned because it was rare and most people, it was assumed, were immune from the vaccinations.

About two years later, word got around that there was an ongoing pertussis outbreak in the state and 6 babies had died. My sister was pregnant and almost due and because of the outbreak, no one would be allowed near the baby for 6 months unless they had immunity. In the off chance I did from my suspected infection, I had an immunity test. It was such a rarely performed test that it wasn't even listed on the order form and there was no ID for it. The doctor wrote it in and hoped the lab technicians knew what we were talking about.

Fortunately they did, and I came back positive for pertussis antibodies, confirming I had immunity which could have only come from infection. This proved that spate of coughing fits I had two years before was pertussis.

I was likely unfortunately an unwitting link in an outbreak that needlessly killed 6 babies. Pertussis is a sinister illness. It's highly infectious, mimics a mild cold, and is fatal to infants.

This begs the question to parents, even if vaccinations did cause autism, would you rather have a child with some degree of autism or would you rather have to experience the death of a child?

We are now having a measles outbreak. In fact we've had two measles outbreaks in the past 20 years since this anti-vaccination mentality has been going around.



there's also the issue of risk. perhaps it's alright to risk autism for something like this. but for something like chicken pox? especially when the risk of fatal shingles is raised later in life by getting a chicken pox vaccine instead of just contracting it naturally?

also, how are you certain that the initial vaccine didn't give you pertussis? there is an issue of quality in these vaccines and not all batches are of the same high level of quality.



oldmantime
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17 Jun 2011, 8:00 pm

Fo-Rum wrote:
Probably best to not get vaccines in a child within the first year or maybe even two, and wait at least two months or longer between vaccinations.

Reasons? Our brains are still being developed at a young age, and whether you believe or not that vaccinations can lead to autism, there is no doubt that they do have a chance at a negative effect, be it severe or minor. You can reduce this chance by just -waiting-. And, it takes at least two months for our brains to fully recover from being ill, the same applies to a vaccine since it triggers the same response in the brain.

I'd rather though that people focus on something.. I don't know.. realistic? I mean, the death rate for the measles went down by like 97% before a vaccination for it was even introduced... Why can't we focus more on those things instead of an unnatural "prevention" (that doesn't always work, so it's still technically a gamble)?


actually, in japan they wait until 2.

also, flu vaccines aren't very effective in elderly. apparently these journals don't like studies that question these vaccines.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... google.com

"So I think we've done the best that you can do and we did not see an effect," Jackson said.

Jackson's findings were not well received. Two U.S. research journals rejected her pneumonia paper, before the British journal "The Lancet" finally agreed to publish her study.

In the years since, it has gotten a little easier to challenge the effectiveness of the flu vaccine as more research emerged that supports Jackson's findings. But the issue is still unsettled for some researchers.



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17 Jun 2011, 8:10 pm

not as effective in children either

http://74.6.238.254/search/srpcache?ei= ... Q_muoVKw--

Then, when the immunization program began, it became clear that the vaccine was not as effective in children as in adults. So they required two doses, leading to further shortages.



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18 Jun 2011, 1:22 am

oldmantime wrote:
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measles and polio are on the rise in both the us and europe and the vaccine scare is being blamed for this.i personaly dont see any difference between promising that avoiding something will asure that you avoid a sickness is any different than promising a cure.this vaccing theory is laetrile pure and simple


i don't think you used laetrile right.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/laetrile
today the concept of leatrile means to falsly promise a cure although the drug hasnt been used to treat cancer since the 1970's.the anti vaccine thing is sort of reverse leatrile


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draelynn
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18 Jun 2011, 11:03 am

oldmantime wrote:
draelynn wrote:
There are quite a few shady greedy bastards giving the name 'holistic' a really bad name that is undeserved.

Don't shoot all 'holistic' practioners on site. Any bearing chelation therapies and miracles cures for a price - fire away.


there are good and bad docs on both ends of the medicinal spectrum. why does it always turn into a this vs that argument?


This vs that? That is essentially what I was pointing out... not all holistic practioners are bad but be wary of those peddling mircle cures. I didn't even address medical doctors.

Not sure how my statements turns this into a 'versus' arguement...



lauraflight757
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18 Jun 2011, 2:03 pm

I heard on the news about a year ago that scientific evidence proves vaccines DO NOT cause autism.



styphon
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18 Jun 2011, 8:34 pm

oldmantime wrote:
also, how are you certain that the initial vaccine didn't give you pertussis? there is an issue of quality in these vaccines and not all batches are of the same high level of quality.


Because it is impossible for the DTaP to cause pertussis.

This is why I dislike american culture, we all make comments on things we have no knowledge about yet act like "experts". My life is based on knowledge, so it seems illogical to me that people would do such things.

Do you know what the a stands for in DTaP? Acellular-lacking cells. It is impossible for a bacteria to cause a bacterial borne disease if there is no bacteria!! ! The vaccine is made from purified antigens, which can NOT cause pertussis, therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE to get pertussis from this vaccine.


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19 Jun 2011, 6:29 am

I was just reading that there is no Autism among the Amish. They refuse to have their children vaccinated, and a study has shown they have no incidence of Autism. At least that's what the article says ...
Is this true? Can someone quote the source work on this ??


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draelynn
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19 Jun 2011, 11:11 am

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
I was just reading that there is no Autism among the Amish. They refuse to have their children vaccinated, and a study has shown they have no incidence of Autism. At least that's what the article says ...
Is this true? Can someone quote the source work on this ??


The Amish are a closed community and suffer their own mixed bag variety of genetic disorders thanks to their self imposed genetic bottleneck. To be crude about it - they prove the reasons for preventing marriages between close relatives is valid - they are inbred to the point of genetic damage. If autism was not a genetic trait inherent in any of the small population of Amish that came to the new world then it would stand to reason that they have no autism among their ranks.



Rhiannon0828
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19 Jun 2011, 11:47 am

I don't think vaccines cause autism. I do think that there is a possibility that some vaccines can trigger autism in a child that already has a genetic predisposition for autism. It also seems to me that potential problems could at least be somewhat alleviated with some changes to how vaccines are given. Bundled vaccines concern me. Vaccinating a 14 month old child against five different diseases in one day seems like asking for trouble. That's a lot to bombard a child's system with, and the only reason it's done that way--money. It's cheaper for the pharmaceutical companies to make them that way, cheaper for the doctors giving the vaccines, cheaper for the parents not to make as many appointments. Too many decisions, especially in medicine, are being made in regards to cost and convenience. There is no reason these vaccinations could not be given individually, or at least not more than two at a time. There has been some discussion about whether the combinations of certain vaccines could be a risk. Children definetly need to be vaccinated against potentially deadly or damaging diseases. But there may be some problems with the way it's being done.

As a side note, I do think that it is interesting that people will so adamently state that "the government says they have scientific proof that vaccines do not cause autism." And our government would never lie to us or mislead us, right? I've read about some of the things that have been swept under the rug pertaining to this issue--there's some shady s**t going on there, kids.



styphon
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19 Jun 2011, 3:45 pm

Rhiannon0828 wrote:
I don't think vaccines cause autism. I do think that there is a possibility that some vaccines can trigger autism in a child that already has a genetic predisposition for autism. It also seems to me that potential problems could at least be somewhat alleviated with some changes to how vaccines are given. Bundled vaccines concern me. Vaccinating a 14 month old child against five different diseases in one day seems like asking for trouble. That's a lot to bombard a child's system with, and the only reason it's done that way--money. It's cheaper for the pharmaceutical companies to make them that way, cheaper for the doctors giving the vaccines, cheaper for the parents not to make as many appointments. Too many decisions, especially in medicine, are being made in regards to cost and convenience. There is no reason these vaccinations could not be given individually, or at least not more than two at a time. There has been some discussion about whether the combinations of certain vaccines could be a risk. Children definetly need to be vaccinated against potentially deadly or damaging diseases. But there may be some problems with the way it's being done.

As a side note, I do think that it is interesting that people will so adamently state that "the government says they have scientific proof that vaccines do not cause autism." And our government would never lie to us or mislead us, right? I've read about some of the things that have been swept under the rug pertaining to this issue--there's some shady sh** going on there, kids.


Its more than the government, its 10s of private universities and private investigators that have proven vaccines do not cause autism.

People can not accept the way things are, SOMEONE or SOMETHING must be at fault. It can't be that we don't fully understand, no, someone must be there to pay for this "injustice"!


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19 Jun 2011, 5:23 pm

the whole vaccine causes autism was a scam, initiated by an english doctor....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

he's was proved wrong and his original article is withdrawn, his license to practice in the UK is revoked... and now he is continuing his nonsense medicine in the usa ..... :roll:



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20 Jun 2011, 4:26 am

My son had this as a reaction to his 2 month vax. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meningitis
He was the only person in 5 years in australia to react so badly without death. http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/ ... i3204a.pdf
He now is LFA.

I am sure it is unrelated. But he hasn't received any more vax and my daughter is unvaccinated.


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Rhiannon0828
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20 Jun 2011, 8:26 pm

Styphon and Aspi-rant,
If you notice, the very first thing I said is that I don't think vaccines CAUSE autism. However, I don't think that there are any studies that rule them out as a possible trigger.