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Philologos
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04 Jul 2011, 12:51 am

As if Simone moving on were not enough - we have to deal with family gathering for the funeral, which will stress Herself to the max [I am more antisocial than she, but she is not as good at handling social stresses].

But on top of that, I have heard from my sister that my papa, the Senior Professor, is declining and does not have long.

Which is not as bad in one way as it might seem. He is now several years into heavy Alzheimer's, and if there is a mind in the body it cannot find its way to the surface. To all intents and purposes the Senior Professor has passed on.

But here is the thing. I need to go visit him - which may be last chance.

Now, you should know that about 20 years ago, I told him about the impressive episode of my father-in-law's death, full of faith and peace and surrounded by a large believing family.

To which my pater responded, "If I am on my deathbed, and someone comes into my room and starts praying, I will rise up from my deathbed and throw him bodily out of the room"

Now, if me Da were THERE, my course would be clear. I would visit and not [at least not that he could detect] pray at him.

But he is, by some standards, NOT present, and I am not convinced that if I juggled stuffed bowerbirds in the nude he could know what I was doing.

So - of course I am not going to stop praying for him - but when sitting beside his shell, do I respect his prohibition and NOT pray in his room detectably?

Or do I just pray out figuring that he will likely not know and that in any case since Alzheimer's became noticeable he has mellowed tremendously?

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And - not to get too heavy or ignore a possibility - might it not be a marvel to behold if I pray aloud and he DOES rise up and throw me out?



MarketAndChurch
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04 Jul 2011, 1:32 am

Personally, I wouldn't pray for him beside him, or at least not vocally. Privately in your mind with your eyes closed is fine. I had the same issues with mormons a few years back wherein my uncle, a bishop at the time of his congregation in Hawaii, sent his children over to stay with us, and showing him respect that we would never indoctrinate his children with non-mormon theism, we sacrificed a few sundays to sit with them at a mormon ward so that they could still attend church, and all of this in the hopes that it would be reciprocated if the tables were turned and one of my methodist cousins or syblings were in Hawaii with him. It was not, and the story has been tragically the same throughout most Tongan life - church is a divider and more-so the Mormon church then anything where the church is your first family, before blood relatives. Sending younger family members to hang out with mormon relatives always turns into a new member recruitment effort

From those sour experiences with the mormon side of my family, I respect people's faith so long as they behave ethically. I may pray for them on my own on my own private time, but if they so wish that I not pray for them in front of them, I will respect that. This is slightly different though in that he is not conscious... so I have to say, without thinking too much about it, it is okay. Not praying for him might sit better with you personally, who have to live with the choice of praying or not praying. But he is not mentally there to perceive you. Any other opinions on the matter?


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Philologos
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04 Jul 2011, 9:41 am

Thankee for input.

At present I am leaning toward keeping prayer non-vocal and out of his sight.

Much as it would gladden my heart if he DID rise up and throw me out, we do not know [I am sure there has been work with brain scans, but like that really proves anything] what is under the inability to communicate.



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04 Jul 2011, 9:50 am

I can tell you that if I was in your father's situation I would not want you praying there. I think it is disrespectful to his wishes.



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04 Jul 2011, 12:21 pm

Philologos wrote:
Thankee for input.

At present I am leaning toward keeping prayer non-vocal and out of his sight.


+1 and add prayers from this end also.


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Awesomelyglorious
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04 Jul 2011, 1:17 pm

Just don't do any obvious prayer actions at that point in time. I mean, there isn't a strong and overriding reason you have to pray in his presence, and it would be seen as more respectful to just not pray at that point in time. I don't see the question, as you can play this by ear, but.... the path of least resistance is probably also the most moral path in this case anyway.



Philologos
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04 Jul 2011, 2:28 pm

Many thanks - I will not say I would not have wound up there anyway, but sometimes it is useful to bounce the ball a bit.

This week will be taken up pretty much with Simone's funeral - try to set up for next week.