Still Unsure-Some Observations That Make Me Think Its Not AS

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I've been here a while and I'm still unsure about whether I have Asperger's or not.

I fit a lot of the traits. BUT:

-Greatly enjoy socializing and conversation WHEN I am successful at it to the point where I have a painful longing for more socializing when I am not getting it or even when I'm in a social situation and am having trouble thinking of conversation pieces.

-I've asked a few people about possibly having Asperger's/Autism. Response: "No, you just need some self-esteem and then your social skills will grow." But on the contrary I notice that people who have Asperger's think I have it too.

And thinking about the psychological ramifications of incorrect self-diagnosis(especially that a person might internalize the disorder and start acting like it) I wonder if maybe I've just internalized this thing.

I'd see a psychiatrist but I'm well aware there is an overdiagnosis tendancy in psychiatry. If I demand a brain scan will they give me one? I figure if I could just get a brain scan I could settle my problems once and for all, at least know what's up.

I was having a conversation with a friend who doesn't have AS(according to him), has 2 brothers who do. He says to determine if you have a disorder the real question is whether it is causing any significant problems with functioning. He believes psychiatry's tendancy to treat every minor flaw as a disorder is based on a drive to make money. That I agree with.

He monologues A LOT. Way more than me, and yet he is not having significant enough social difficulty to even be worried about it.

I actually remember editing what I said as I typed it thinking "I think I have AS, but what if someone stereotypically thinks the way I'm typing means I'm not AS so I have to change it for what they think."

That could point to self-esteem issues instead of AS.

I remember thinking before my mother brought up the possibility of AS-All right I'm not trying socially even though I want it, so I'm going to go out there just be myself and quit worrying about what other people think and then everything would fall into place socially.

The moment she started bringing that possibility up I immediately realized that my plan was derailed, because I knew I would start obsessing over the AS, I knew I'd get anxiety. I even basically dismissed the idea from her even though I was still worried about it. I started analyzing a lot about socializing and became more afraid in social situations of screwing up. I did have some "meltdowns" but what if that's not AS what if that's from worrying too much about how others perceive me?

I was unsure whether my plan pre-AS-possibility was still applicable, figuring if I had AS I'd have to actually analyze to get better socially but if I wasn't I could just go out there and do it and get the hang of it in time. For years I have been going between these extremes of analyzing my social situations and thinking "maybe I should try just being myself". And I'd waiver so much between the two I still can't conclude anything about it. Part of me in principle strongly believes in individualism and non-conformity and being yourself, but part of me worries about whether I will get what I want if I follow this and thinks that as long as it is to the direction of a me-benefiting goal then I'm still "being myself" I'm just subordinating parts of my self to other goals of myself. So I wind up in personal battles with myself over and over again where I'm upset at myself for not "being myself" but argue back that I am "being myself" just that I'm "fitting in" for the sake of another goal of "myself" like getting a girl(I haven't been very lucky with this either way, but I'm thinking I just).

I do have mountains of knowledge on certain subjects, but then that doesn't prove anything one way or another because all kinds of people know all kinds of things doesn't mean I have Asperger's. And it's not even just one subject, there are multiple (but often intertwined) subjects. I think it's the intertwining that makes me still suspect AS.

Lately there's so many things over the years I've said "I can't do that I don't have the energy" or "I don't have the confidence" or "too much stress" or "I just feel run down, can't fight that." and then I just choose to do them and it's extremely easy.

When I have less anxiety=less sensory issues, less stomach issues.

Sensory Issues-For me that's been smells. But maybe I just have a strong nose? I've puked because of things I've smelled before, but less as I untangle the mental construct linking the smells to the feeling of disgust and that to nausea.

It seems like a lot of "sensory issues" and "stomach issues" were based on negative mental entanglements and as soon as I understand the association I'm making in my mind I can untangle that association and be rid of it. There may be many associations I've made between things in the environment and my stomach though so this could take a while but whether it is or is not AS I think at some point I will no longer have stomach issues.

A thought just occured to me. What if the sensory issues are for such a simple reason as me trying to deny my feelings and so shoveling them all to a specific place in the body instead of allowing my whole body to feel it?

I guess the whole problem I have is these past few years I've been caught in a war between part of me that wants more self-regulation out of fear that my personality isn't good enough on its own or that I need some kind of total "self-development plan" to "catch up" in life, and part of me that wants to just let go and believes that if I do that I will feel my way to freedom and victory. Now I'm thinking the second one, planning has its place and there's areas in my life where I should be doing more planning but a total plan covering my entire life is ridiculous and overstressing planning will constrict my freedom in life and then I won't be fun and then people will not want to socialize whether I have AS or not. Can't blame them. I just hope it's not late, and the people in my life come to see me changed into a happy, fun guy.

I'm realizing now one of my biggest social problems was after hearing about AS getting extremely nervous or embarrassed every single time I made a mistake that I related to AS or if I was anticipating a mistake or if I wasn't sure how to interpret something in a conversation. Now I'm thinking everyone does these things sometimes, even if I do some of these things more it wouldn't necessarily mean I have AS.

I guess part of the reason it's hard to let go of this question of whether I have AS or not is that I've met people who have it who think that I definitely do(not because I told them I do though, I've said I'm not sure), even people who just know someone who has it. What if at some point I am called to account? What if someone asks if I have Asperger's. I guess I could say "I fit some of the traits but I'm not worried about it." "But do you have it?" "How should I know I'm not a doctor."

I remember obsessing over trying to get out all the information I could in the first round of a conversation, trying to preempt all misunderstanding, and this obsession evolved into a habit whose roots I had forgotten till now. From the example I just posted above I realize that short answers are beneficial, because then you can just reply to any misunderstandings and that's actually good because the conversation lasts longer and the other person feels there is more give-and-take(even if you achieve the same informative effect as if you had monologued it, only then splitting it up means the person is more likely to remember more of it). Something made me extremely afraid of any misunderstandings happen. If I stop fearing misunderstandings maybe I'll talk easier.

I think I might have some of the same quirks(taking things too literally, absent-mindedness, knowledgeability) but how can I know if it is to the extent of the disorder. It makes sense that if it was not but I let myself get too easily embarrassed that this could hold me back socially even when otherwise I would've been fine.

So does this sound like I just had self-esteem issues, fears, and anxiety unrelated to AS that were blocking me from effectively using my social skills? Should I try learning social skills or try unlearning things that are blocking me from socializing and just let myself learn(or relearn) social skills as I go through life and observe?

I've read a lot of this post, not all though. You sound a lot like me though. I'm like you, quite a few traits, noticing more once I found out about it. I just think I have Aspergers very mildly. I'm pretty good at socializing, very literal though. Special interests only last a couple of weeks, except Star Wars but that's more a close fan following than a full on obsession. One guy who knows a guy with more severe Aspergers and he said he'd seen it in me. Also got OCD. But the truth is, it doesn't matter if you have it or not. One title won't change who you are. Just chill out, be who you really are and ignore the rest of those worries.

You could still be on the spectrum and not have aspergers. Or you can have it and that's okay, too. Anything is okay. Really, you just need to relax and be yourself, continue to work on your social skills. You are on the right track by trying to better yourself and learn more about yourself and your shortcomings/strengths so I think you have a lot going for you. I would probably tell people you might have aspergers, if you're in a situation where it's obviously weird and you don't know how to get out of it, but other than that you shouldn't worry yourself.

Maybe you've already considered this, but have you recalled your childhood and matched that up with AS? Not just your behaviors, but what was going on inside your mind too?

More thinking...
...I just realized part of my awkwardness comes from compulsive socializing, not the socializing-in-itself aspect but compulsively saying things just to have something to say and that this in turn leads to poorer quality of conversation simply for the fact that my mind is latching on to the first thing in a desperate bid to get in. I need to just relax and let words flow out of me from now on.

I also realized some monologues were out of an obsessive fear of what would happen if I forgot a detail, often I'd think the detail was necessary or else if I described it again later with more detail the person wouldn't believe the details.

Now that I notice that thought process I recognize it is ridiculous.

Also I might think that incomplete details will make them think I'm saying one thing and not another. This DOES happen, but this happens to everybody. It's fine to say "what I meant to say was..." and if they're uninterested or you can't think of a new way to phrase it then I might as well just move on to the next thing.

It's not worth obsessing just to make sure that everything is communicated properly. I hope this helps some people but I realized the key to having a good conversation is NOT to try to be perfect. Trying to be perfect comes off as awkward.

Warning this account is very non-linear:

I was dxd Tourette's as a child but when I first tried marijuana in high school I had discovered the psychological origins of the tics. They weren't random. One was due to a pattern I kept picking up because I happened to be shaking my head around at that moment. One was because when I was a kid I saw a commercial that said huffing could kill you that my mom then confirmed but I did not know huffing was sniffing glue I thought huffing was just breathing in. I wasn't sure how that could be since we need air to breathe but figured since we didn't need the carbon dioxide that "huffing" meant taking in too much CO2, so I started compulsively exhaling.

Around middle school was the peak of my obsessiveness. I would obsess over the thoughts I was having and whether they were right. I even checked my thoughts for grammar and said the definition or the spelling of it if it was a homonym. Sometimes I would force myself to spell words that weren't homynyms in my mind. Like OCD but the compulsions were things I had to say inside my brain.

Backtracking-When I was about somewhere between 4 and 7 years old I worried about "the wrong monster" which would come and get me if I got things wrong(technically not morally) in my speech or if I did an activity wrong.

I know kids that age imagine all kinds of things but where did I get that idea?

I was picked on a lot in daycare. I remember one time I was counting but counted partly in my head and someone said "that's not how you count."* I remember they thought I was stupid and I believed them and said "if someone is stupid you should teach them and then they will be smart."

Whether I have Asperger's or not it's clear I didn't understand the concept of "insults" until I was 4 or 5(not sure what year that happened). I literally thought they were making an observation about my intelligence and thought if I was stupid then it should be remedied through them teaching me enough things so I wouldn't be stupid anymore.

Maybe that's why I worry so much about people thinking I'm "stupid", because it relates back to those early memories. The loss of my innocence happened there.

I figured out they were teasing me when I talked about it to my parents but it still didn't help me know what to do about it and my parents didn't do anything about it either.

*Maybe this is why I became so obsessive about "getting my thoughts right" in case I said something outloud I didn't want to sound stupid.

I've learned something today. Good social skills isn't about being polite or agreeable or honest, it's about asserting yourself and your needs without scaring people and while considering their needs and how you can meet each other's needs. I think a lot of the time people focus on other people when trying to develop social skills, when the person to focus on is yourself.

Being a pushover=/=having good social skills.

Another thing though even the most NT kid will not develop social skills without social exposure. I don't even have a memory of my social life before daycare except a spotty part about the kid next door hating me and a few random encounters at various places like Discovery Zone or Chuck E. Cheese. I know my mom says there were a few kids who were sometimes over that I played with including a kid with palsy who had to use a wheelchair. But I don't even remember that kid or even the wheelchair or any of the other kids or what happened to them.

There was a woman who I was in daycare with(different daycare) who I don't even remember. I have a very vague memory of being at some place. Child abuse? Repressed memories?

My memories go back very far. I even have some vague memories of when I was 2. I argued early. I did not want to sleep in the crib, I wanted a bed. I climbed out and fell on my head. No damage at the hospital, but what did that experience do to my psychology?

I remember hiding in bathrooms a lot when at relative's places for parties such as Christmas. But why did I do that? I know I was labelled "shy" by my older cousin, I distinctly remember that. Seemed positive at the time and probably was. Did this labelling influence me? Did I try to live up to it(and continued to try even when I realized I no longer wanted to because of this old influence)?

I did get beat once by my father but the only time I can remember him doing that I threatened to call the police immediately afterwards. The beatings stopped. But I also remember having a very strong fear of my father especially as a young child. I remember hating him. I remember feeling almost deathly afraid just from the way he talked to me. The verbal abuse continued and if anything exaccerbated after I had threatened to send the cops after him. Could there have been times before that I forgot?

He denies it but looking back at his pattern of behavior it almost looks like he enjoyed making me feel like sh*t. He would chastize me over nothing at times. One example-telling me wearing sunglasses in the car isn't "normal". He encouraged me to worry about everything And I hate him for it because I feel like he still influences my behavior. He would always be getting frustrated over nothing, leading to me getting angry, and then I'd get blamed. I hate him for enjoying the impossible-to-resist intellectual conversations we have together.

To make matters worse he is a hypocrit. Even before the beating I remember him talking about how he opposed even spanking children.

AS or not, I'm realizing the bulk of my problems are because of old influences which if exposed today I would not be influenced by but am being influenced by because until I recognize where these influences came from I will still be feeling the emotions from them.

One more thing I vaguely remember as a young child receiving cognitive testing before I was ever diagnosed with anything(note: I'm still not diagnosed with AS). I also remember I tested well.

At the time this seemed normal. I assumed this was something parents did for children in general. Do a lot of parents do this just as a check up? Or if the kid has obvious genius do parents ever test to see how much genius or maybe it was a test to get into some place(I did take advanced courses but that was many years later at middle school)?

I kind of briefly skimmed your post but now I am going to just go through and make some comments as I read. You sound a lot like me.

What is a brain scan going to do for you? I mean, as far as I know nobody can really look at a brain scan and determine that a person has an ASD, if that were the case wouldn't that be the way they tested for autism? I know I've read about some studies here on WP that used brain imagining to look at ASD issues but there isn't enough research that you could use this as the basis of a diagnosis? (Could be wrong... someone please inform me if that is the case.)



I can understand this point of view, and I think it kind of how the DSM puts it too: "(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." I guess the thing is though you came Wrong Planet for a reason, I don't think many people find this forum or discover that they may have AS from wondering why their life is so wonderful and they are so successful--not to say that people here don't have wonderful, successful, happy lives--but rather because they are experiencing problems and when they research their difficulties they find places like this.

So if you are having problems with socializing, anxiety, etc. then focus on the problems and maybe don't focus so much on whether or not you have AS? I guess what I am trying to say (at least how I feel about it) is that being 100% sure you have AS would certainly be comforting to know and has its benefits... but it wont get rid of your problems.



Just figure out what methods work best for you in dealing with your social skills. For me it is kind a bit of both, I do analyze my social interactions and try to figure out where I did well and where I can improve but the more I socialize the more 'get the hang of it' too. I would compare it to learning to play guitar... it is something [most] people are not naturally good at, you very much have to analyze and practice in order to 'get the hang of it', and when you don't practice guitar you get rusty and don't perform as well. For me this is kind of how my social skills work they need constant practice.



I know how frustrating this can be, just 'being myself' doesn't get my far socially, I kind of feel like I've spent most of my life trying to be more of a blend of my favorite movie characters than just me. The only real girlfriend I had told me to 'just be myself' and we didn't end up lasting that long.(Apparently she didn't find my ability to organize DVDs into different computer data structures very appealing ) I think you have to be able to 'be yourself' but also know how to 'regulate' yourself. If you are always trying to not be yourself then its probably going to drive you up a wall eventually. I don't have good advice for you here because I really have no idea how to draw that line myself.



I don't know what the right answer is really, I think its probably a mix of learning/unlearning maybe but, again, just figure out what works for you. You seem to have done a pretty good job at reflecting upon your own quirks and its just a matter of working out what to do about them. It is much easier said than done though. I think in terms of identifying your troubles you are moving in the right direction.

Sounds like you need to see a specialist in ASD. Its really the only way you will ever know, otherwise it could just be wishful thinking in the hope of fitting in somewhere.

Just be aware that they will dig back through your childhood.. Mine was particularly distressing and have been having nightmares about it due to the diagnostic process bringing it all up again.

You can't diagnose AS with a brain scan. All research of AS using brain scans is preliminary, and they haven't found a very clear pattern present in everyone with AS and not in non-autistics.



That's what I've done to deal with my autism-related social problems. That and seeking out the right social settings, people who'll understand my differences and appreciate my strengths. (My two best friends, that I made just this year, are university students with CP.)

From your description, I'm not sure if you have AS or not. But you certainly have OCD - your 'wrong monster' and tics sound like OCD stuff to me. I've heard OCD can be treated by medication.

One thought - what does your Mom remember about your behavior before you'd ever heard of autism? You may not have noticed anything odd about your behavior, but people who've known you as a kid could probably see if you had AS traits. Ask her about a bunch of childhood AS traits, and whether she remembers you having them as a kid. Also, see if you can find any videotapes of you as a kid, and see if you or others can spot autistic behavior in those tapes. If you take the other poster's suggestion of seeing a specialist, bring your Mom and any videotapes you found to the meeting.

You really do sound like you have OCD. Are you sure you DON'T have tourette's? Since a dr did dx you with it.

Tourette's can be very similar to ASD. I would be happy to talk about the similarities, differences.

This is what I thought as well!

to be frank you'd get a lot more responses if you curbed you posts a bit, it's excessive and I see a lot of people wondering why they don't get many responses and they think it's because people can't help them.

You should sum up.