Is Anti Zionism Anti Semitism in my opinion the answer is no

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Omerik
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26 Jul 2011, 4:20 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Anti Zionism is Anti Semitism . Jews need a place to live.


Yes and they can choose to integrate themselves anywhere they choose to live. Zionism is a racist political nationalism and belongs in the 19th century where it began. European Jews have no claim on semitic lands other than that of an invader [they chose not to integrate as immigrants].

peace j

Those Europeans were hated everywhere they went. My family wandered around in shame throughout Europe, and was hated everywhere for keeping their tradition. So why should they try and keep integrating elsewhere? If Europe doesn't want Jews, Jews will survive with no Europe.

My family "chose not to integrate" after years of antisemitism, violence, racism and bigotry, and after 3 years of hell at Auschwitz she was still unwanted in her home village.

Racist? If saying I belong to a nation is racist, then I'm racist. Zionism says nothing racist, as I said, the first Zionist was married to a non-Jew. He wanted to keep Judaism as a distinct tradition and nationality alive.

Claim on a land? My ancestors lived there, and we haven't forgotten our tradition and connection to this land for over 2000 years, so yes, I have a claim. The Palestinians have a claim as well - they live so close to these sites, they should be able to visit them. Everyone has the right to claim that they feel at home wherever they feel so. Zionists did not want to kick the Arabs out, not the majority of them at least.



Ztrain
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27 Jul 2011, 7:26 am

Omerik wrote:
RedHanrahan wrote:
Disolving the state of Israel [a dumb idea however attractive] does not mean a genocide the two are not implicit.

As for being 'anti zionist'? I am opposed to zionism just as I am 'anti-nazi' and 'anti-racist', does this make me 'anti-aryan/German' - no! So why is opposing their Jewish equivelant always lead to the 'anti-semite' accusation? it is moronic and dishonest and plays on holocaust discomfort.

peace j

Being Zionist is not the equivalent of being a Nazi, for crying out loud.
I'm not saying if you're not a Zionist you hate Jews, but being a Zionist doesn't mean being a Nazi, and the fact that Europeans think so at times, well, that makes ignorant Jews to hate the Europeans, because they call their right to self defense as "Nazism". Zionism merely says, again, that the homeland for Jews is Israel, and that they are a nation. It says nothing about slaves, perfect beings, genocide, or whatever. It doesn't say that if you're not a Jew you're inferior. Herzl, the first Zionist, was married to a non-Jew. And just for you to know, in the times of the British Mandate the right-wing fascists were called "Revisionists" and their ideology "Revisionist Zionism", because it was against traditional, socialist, Zionism.

Ztrain wrote:
No Anti Zionism is a response to human rights abuses committed by the IDF and Israeli settelers against the Palestinians. Its a rejection of supporting an apartheid state that spends its money on walls to keep out arabs and occupy the west bank to try to force out arab families

I'm an Israeli who's against these things you wrote, but still not an Anti-Zionist. Zionism doesn't mean all of that violent despicable sh**.

Well than we need to clarify if we are opposed to POLITICAL zionism or CULTURAL zionism.I have no issue with jews moving to palestine and neither did the Palestinians until the were forced out of their homes.So maybe we all need to recognize the difference



Ztrain
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27 Jul 2011, 7:27 am

Though truly i think its rascist to divide religions up geographically,that only polarizes an already divided world.



visagrunt
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27 Jul 2011, 1:15 pm

Zionism does not mean the same thing to all people.

I believe that the Jewish people constitute a nation in the older sense of that word. I support the existence of the State of Israel as fulling a need for a modern nation state that provides an international legal presence for the Jewish nation.

But that does not mean that I uncritically support every decision of the government of the State of Israel. Israel is a Parliamentary democracy, and at the root of every Parliamentary democracy is the understanding that there is no single solution to any of the challenges facing a government. Accordingly, it is entirely possible to be a Zionist, but to disapprove of the policy of Israel on the West Bank, for example. It is entirely possible to be a Zionist, but to support the creation of a nation state that provides an international legal presence for the Palestinian nation. (That should have been Jordan, perhaps, but that possibility is long since gone).

Similarly, it is possible to oppose the policies of the government of Israel without believing that the State of Israel ought not properly to exist.

In my view, if you say, "Israel is wrong to blockade Gaza," that is neither inherently anti-Zionist, nor is it anit-Semitic. But, if you say, "Israel is an illegitimate state," then that statement is more clearly anti-Zionist. But it's not until you get to formulae like "Jews have no right to a homeland," or Jews, "can choose to integrate themselves anywhere they choose to live," that anti-Semitism begins to rear its ugly head.

As sartresue correctly points out, these concepts are not one and the same--but they are often fellow travellers.


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