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CaptainTrips222
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28 Jul 2011, 5:37 am

If not for certain developed parts of the brain, we'd be full blown pack mentality, with an alpha male, an alpha female, and progressively lower ranks, until you reached the guy everyone craps on. We wouldn't follow the gray wolf model, but probably some higher primate.

It's kinda intimidating and sad to think about it, but when I look at people in social groups, I can almost see who's the highest ranking, and the people who barely have rank at all. It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.



transformingcar
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28 Jul 2011, 5:56 am

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It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.


That might be why there are gangs and bullies... sure seems like it... you could be on to something there.



samtoo
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28 Jul 2011, 7:17 am

Then people should rebel against it all by being their own individual. :) *Smiles of encouragement*
In my opinion, when people fill their minds with this kind of thinking, it can consume and create circles of illusionary lack of self esteem with this illusionary thinking that we must be pack animals - not so. :) Humans have choice... we can choose what we do.
I would not consider myself a person with a pack mentality, and sometimes I can be a happy person.

Be who YOU want to be... ALL of you. :) NOT what some gang of people who have no connections or ties to you want you to be... sorry if this is a little expressive I just want to help and make my point from thoughts that have gotten to me, and I do not want these thoughts to get to other people.

Great days all. x


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TenPencePiece
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28 Jul 2011, 2:35 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
It's kinda intimidating and sad to think about it, but when I look at people in social groups, I can almost see who's the highest ranking, and the people who barely have rank at all. It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.


It's sad, and I'm afraid to say it's universal, in every circle.


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chrissyrun
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28 Jul 2011, 10:14 pm

TenPencePiece wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
It's kinda intimidating and sad to think about it, but when I look at people in social groups, I can almost see who's the highest ranking, and the people who barely have rank at all. It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.


It's sad, and I'm afraid to say it's universal, in every circle.


Even online? 8O :chin:


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CaptainTrips222
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29 Jul 2011, 2:21 am

TenPencePiece wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
It's kinda intimidating and sad to think about it, but when I look at people in social groups, I can almost see who's the highest ranking, and the people who barely have rank at all. It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.


It's sad, and I'm afraid to say it's universal, in every circle.


Indeed. And you're wise to recognize this at your age. Fortunately, if you can find circles of people with life experience and emotional maturity, they do temper their impulses somewhat.



TenPencePiece
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29 Jul 2011, 4:38 am

chrissyrun wrote:
Even online?

To a slightly lesser degree, I would say so. Take a look at most internet forums.


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CockneyRebel
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29 Jul 2011, 7:07 am

TenPencePiece wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
It's kinda intimidating and sad to think about it, but when I look at people in social groups, I can almost see who's the highest ranking, and the people who barely have rank at all. It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.


It's sad, and I'm afraid to say it's universal, in every circle.


That's the one thing about postmodern society that I can't stand.


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CaptainTrips222
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29 Jul 2011, 10:20 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
TenPencePiece wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
It's kinda intimidating and sad to think about it, but when I look at people in social groups, I can almost see who's the highest ranking, and the people who barely have rank at all. It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.


It's sad, and I'm afraid to say it's universal, in every circle.


That's the one thing about postmodern society that I can't stand.


I'm guessing it has more to do with our genetic makeup, and nature in general, than with an era.



Lord_Boofhead
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04 Aug 2011, 4:13 pm

Yeah sad but true. But on the bright side in the modern age 'Knowledge is Power' and being smart is one thing we Aspies do well.



nichiren
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06 Aug 2011, 7:58 pm

Which means even if I were not the way I am i probably would have still isolated myself.
As a kid I saw the group social dynamic and I wanted no parts of it.
And I do know it may be part of the 'animal' part in us, but seems that with intelligence it is not necessary.
Look at our governments and businesses.
We have people at the top with just as many flaws as people on the bottom.
Difference is a mistake at the top can hurt billions.


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KWifler
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14 Aug 2011, 5:24 pm

I can't imagine being one of the inferior lowest rank people or one of the top of the ladder, so if someone tries to dominate me in a group, I give them hell for it.
Alternatively, as an experienced alpha online, I attract a ton of boot lickers who do nothing but imitate me poorly and say I'm their hero and that they love me.

I'm an equalist individualist, probably because of the aspergers.



URtheALIEN
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14 Aug 2011, 5:47 pm

I hate social status rankings. Can't I just be me and you be you? I feel absolutely no need to dominate and will not allow myself to be dominated. That being said, I think it's a fact that humans are a social animal and therefore have a system of social rankings that come natural to us. I can't remember the name of the individual that came up with this idea, nor name of the description or even all the ranks but the system I thought most sensible went something like this.

At the top the alpha who is a leader and actually tries to do well for those below him, as this rank is nearly universally a him. Second a beat that is a bully and has power only by supporting the alpha. Then on down through other ranking that had particular little details like being interested in defusing conflicts or putting down the weaker while currying favor from the higher ranks until finally the lowest two ranks which were the guy, nearly always a guy, that everyone picks on but is in the group and the outcast that is driven away and tortured by all. Long sentence. Anyway, supposedly these ranks appear in any sufficiently large group, I think the critical number was around 50-60 for all ranks to appear and the really interesting part was that if you took all the individuals of one rank, alpha, beta, whatever, from a number of groups and made them interact long enough then some of the individuals will change to take on the positions that are vacant. Example, 100 alphas put in a group 1 stays an alpha, 1 becomes a beta and so on until one is an outcast even though they were an alpha in their original group. Anyone ever hear of this? I'd love to re-read this theory as it was about 20-25 years ago I read it the first time.


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dancing_penguin
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17 Aug 2011, 12:13 pm

URtheALIEN wrote:
At the top the alpha who is a leader and actually tries to do well for those below him, as this rank is nearly universally a him. Second a beat that is a bully and has power only by supporting the alpha. Then on down through other ranking that had particular little details like being interested in defusing conflicts or putting down the weaker while currying favor from the higher ranks until finally the lowest two ranks which were the guy, nearly always a guy, that everyone picks on but is in the group and the outcast that is driven away and tortured by all. Long sentence. Anyway, supposedly these ranks appear in any sufficiently large group, I think the critical number was around 50-60 for all ranks to appear and the really interesting part was that if you took all the individuals of one rank, alpha, beta, whatever, from a number of groups and made them interact long enough then some of the individuals will change to take on the positions that are vacant. Example, 100 alphas put in a group 1 stays an alpha, 1 becomes a beta and so on until one is an outcast even though they were an alpha in their original group. Anyone ever hear of this? I'd love to re-read this theory as it was about 20-25 years ago I read it the first time.


Try looking for W. C. Allee's original work. The first page of this article references his work from the 1930s that sounds like it might be hinting a similar direction: link Like apparently he said that a group hierarchy can make the group stronger (so that fits with the leader wanting the others to be okay). The author in this article seems to be working on top of Allee's work, and considers hierarchy formation in a group of "N individuals" (at least in the intro). So maybe this is the right direction.



Moog
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17 Aug 2011, 12:15 pm

By pack animals, I thought the OP meant animals like mules and camels that carry stuff.


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Dantac
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17 Aug 2011, 6:27 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
If not for certain developed parts of the brain, we'd be full blown pack mentality, with an alpha male, an alpha female, and progressively lower ranks, until you reached the guy everyone craps on. We wouldn't follow the gray wolf model, but probably some higher primate.

It's kinda intimidating and sad to think about it, but when I look at people in social groups, I can almost see who's the highest ranking, and the people who barely have rank at all. It's almost always the most shallow, bull headed person who gets all the influence and status.


look at chimpanzee hierarchy. our hard coded human mentality is very similar.