Your political opinions on abortion and capital punishment

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abortion and capital punishment: your opinions?
pro-life; anti death penalty 14%  14%  [ 13 ]
pro-life; pro death penalty 9%  9%  [ 9 ]
pro-choice; anti death penalty 46%  46%  [ 44 ]
pro-choice; pro death penalty 31%  31%  [ 29 ]
Total votes : 95

temperaryobsessor
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10 Mar 2012, 8:18 pm

Pro life anti death penelty.
I'm anti death penelty because I believe most situations it does not actually help anything.
I'm pro life because I believe a fetus is a human being, a person, and a baby whether the government agrees with me or not and that embarisment and/or a year of inconvience is no reason to kill a person.
I do believe that if the mother would actually be in danger by carrying the baby to term it is then her choice.
I believe in personal freedom until somebody else is hurt by your freedom and in this case there is somebody else.

Logically I could see the argument of saying they are not a person until their brain starts developing as reasonable, although I do not take that stand. However, I find defining someone's personhood by location pretty arbitrary e.g. not a person because they are still in the womb.



scubasteve
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10 Mar 2012, 8:48 pm

temperaryobsessor wrote:
I believe in personal freedom until somebody else is hurt by your freedom and in this case there is somebody else.

Logically I could see the argument of saying they are not a person until their brain starts developing as reasonable, although I do not take that stand. However, I find defining someone's personhood by location pretty arbitrary e.g. not a person because they are still in the womb.


The libertarian credo doesn't really apply here, because it still depends on at what stage you consider someone a person, with inherent rights as such. If a fetus is a "person", the mother would be infringing on the baby's right to life. If a fetus is not a person, the state would be infringing on the mother's right to choose. Arbitrary or not, I don't see any way to take a stand on this issue without first deciding at what point one becomes a "person". (Or if such rights are granted by societies rather than by God, it might be when one becomes a "citizen".) Either way, I say from birth, and therefore I'm pro-choice. That's all it comes down to.



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10 Mar 2012, 9:12 pm

scubasteve wrote:
temperaryobsessor wrote:
I believe in personal freedom until somebody else is hurt by your freedom and in this case there is somebody else.

Logically I could see the argument of saying they are not a person until their brain starts developing as reasonable, although I do not take that stand. However, I find defining someone's personhood by location pretty arbitrary e.g. not a person because they are still in the womb.


The libertarian credo doesn't really apply here, because it still depends on at what stage you consider someone a person, with inherent rights as such. If a fetus is a "person", the mother would be infringing on the baby's right to life. If a fetus is not a person, the state would be infringing on the mother's right to choose. Arbitrary or not, I don't see any way to take a stand on this issue without first deciding at what point one becomes a "person". (Or if such rights are granted by societies rather than by God, it might be when one becomes a "citizen".) Either way, I say from birth, and therefore I'm pro-choice. That's all it comes down to.


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temperaryobsessor
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10 Mar 2012, 10:09 pm

scubasteve wrote:
temperaryobsessor wrote:
I believe in personal freedom until somebody else is hurt by your freedom and in this case there is somebody else.

Logically I could see the argument of saying they are not a person until their brain starts developing as reasonable, although I do not take that stand. However, I find defining someone's personhood by location pretty arbitrary e.g. not a person because they are still in the womb.


The libertarian credo doesn't really apply here, because it still depends on at what stage you consider someone a person, with inherent rights as such. If a fetus is a "person", the mother would be infringing on the baby's right to life. If a fetus is not a person, the state would be infringing on the mother's right to choose. Arbitrary or not, I don't see any way to take a stand on this issue without first deciding at what point one becomes a "person". (Or if such rights are granted by societies rather than by God, it might be when one becomes a "citizen".) Either way, I say from birth, and therefore I'm pro-choice. That's all it comes down to.

.

Arbitrary or not I chose conception as the point where I define a person, so if you agree with me on that the libertarian credo stands.
That being said I do not see everything as equal. I believe life trumps medical procedures which are not to save your life.
Even taking a pro choice stand on the definition of person, the right to "choice" is still no more legitimate than the right to lyposuction.



LKL
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11 Mar 2012, 12:54 am

temperaryobsessor wrote:
Logically I could see the argument of saying they are not a person until their brain starts developing as reasonable, although I do not take that stand. However, I find defining someone's personhood by location pretty arbitrary e.g. not a person because they are still in the womb.
The fact that you define a woman's body as a 'location' says more about you than you probably wish it would.



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11 Mar 2012, 1:04 am

I am pro-choice and anti-death.

I call the death penalty, the revenge penalty. People feel the death penalty is an act of justice and punishment. But it does not solve anything. The death penalty chooses nothing.

And a woman should have a choice of what happens to her body. I think, especially, if a woman was raped. If she wants to abort the fetus of a pregnancy due to something traumatic like that, then she should have the choice. A woman should have a choice no matter what. It's her body.



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11 Mar 2012, 5:45 pm

I don't see any reason to be against abortion.

As for death penalty, I'm not against it in principle, I just think it is ineffective and inefficient in ordinary situations. For criminal law matters, I find it risible, even for murder. Arguably, it might be useful for political reasons in extraordinary situation (e.g. a revolution or a revolt), but even then, more as a symbol.

However, every time I hear someone say: "This person should die", I quote Gandalf.



donnie_darko
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11 Mar 2012, 9:16 pm

The death penalty is the equivalent of kicking your enemy when they're down and laughing at them. Abortion is pretty much just early infanticide.



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15 Mar 2012, 8:19 am

Pro-choice and Pro-death penalty.

I see a fetus as the closest biological term that applies, a parasite. It feeds of the mother and makes her incapable of doing certain things. A baby I see as a human being, and then has rights. But before it reaches a certain developmental stage it has no brain activity, and it's nothing. It should be up to the women to decide whether she wants to keep it to term or not (although I also think the man should have a say in the matter). I don't believe in adoption as long as the parents are fit and well. There's too many unwanted children as it is.

Pro-death penalty I think for things such as terrorism, genocide, serial murders and severe child abuse/pedophilia. I do not believe that a person who has gone that far down the path of cruelty and hatred can return, and I'd rather not use my tax money on keeping them locked up and 'rehabilitated'.


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15 Mar 2012, 9:24 am

donnie_darko wrote:
The death penalty is the equivalent of kicking your enemy when they're down and laughing at them. Abortion is pretty much just early infanticide.


Not really. Infants have rights., fetuses do not.

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15 Mar 2012, 6:46 pm

Pro-choice, anti Death.

I think everyone who can make a baby should be able to make a choice if you can raise it.

I'm anti death penalty because i think its wrong to kill someone to show him/her that killing people is wrong. Its not logic. Just put someone away, alone in a room for the rest of his/her life. Also if the judge made a mistake you can let someone go free, when he/she is death you cant do anything but put the judge on death penalty for killing an innocent person.



donnie_darko
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16 Mar 2012, 1:41 am

ruveyn wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
The death penalty is the equivalent of kicking your enemy when they're down and laughing at them. Abortion is pretty much just early infanticide.


Not really. Infants have rights., fetuses do not.

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16 Mar 2012, 8:25 pm

Pro-choice, pro death penalty


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femme
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16 Mar 2012, 8:27 pm

Pro Choice and I am for the death penallty


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donnie_darko
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17 Mar 2012, 4:25 am

So far, 87% of WP thinks that killing humans is sometimes justified.



Oldout
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17 Mar 2012, 9:42 am

donnie_darko wrote:
So far, 87% of WP thinks that killing humans is sometimes justified.


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