No longer having AS = Identity and social issues.

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draelynn
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01 Aug 2011, 7:15 pm

You had interventions in place at a crucial age. They teach ASD kids all these skills for a reason - with the hope and the belief that they will learn and have an easier life than they potentially would without them. So, is ASD simply a learning disorder? Once the skill is learned you are magically no longer ASD? Or, do you still have the altered brain wiring and chemistry inherent in the AS developmental disorder but have learned to compensate for the deficits? You brain didn't magically rewire itself - you acquired the knowledge and experiences necessary to overcome the difficulties.

Only you know if your brain is wired differently. If you asked me in my 20's if I was different from other people I would have said no BUT I would have been able to tell you exactly how I thought differently than other people... and that all people are different. Right?! Sensory issues, processing issues, energy depletion issues, meltdowns and shut downs, that nagging voice that tells you exactly how illogical other people are... there are all sorts of things that could still be present while you function socially quite well. AS doesn't get 'learned away'. But the medical profession may consider your higher functioning level as 'cured' becasue they cannot detect the outward signs. They can't see the internal processes - only you know if those are still present.

My guess is that you are an intervention success story and that you should keep on keeping on with exactly what you are doing. Bridging that gap is needed so badly. Don't sweat the label.



mori_pastel
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02 Aug 2011, 12:15 am

Isn't the latest autism "fad" early intervention? Maybe my understanding is a bit off here, but check out these links:

CNN - Study: Early autism intervention in toddlers is effective

WebMD - Early Intervention Improves Autism Symptoms

Science Daily - Early Intervention Lessens Impact of Autism

And what about Temple Grandin? She says that the reason that she's as successful and functional as she is today is because of the efforts her mother made as a child to improve her speech and teach her social rules. Actually, I think she talks about early intervention with autism every chance she gets.

I know this isn't an exact comparison. But if intervention at 2 can make radical social differences in classic autism, why shouldn't diagnosis at 10 make a noticeable difference?

And it's not really about the age you know so much as it is the way you're raised, both by your parents and any other sort of teaching you had. I mean, I've got an ADHD brother whose 13 right now. I know several other kids who also have ADHD, both medicated and not. The medication does make a difference, but the biggest impact on his behavior is how much time my parents spent with him, forcing him to do homework and such, teaching him to give the other kids space, how to take turns, and how to stay calm. You can tell a difference between my brother and the other kids in his class with ADHD, the ones who are disrespectful to teachers and disrupt class or are failing out of school because they can't pay attention in class or keep up with their assignments. The difference isn't medication, it's upbringing.

My brother hasn't "grown out" of his ADHD like kids are rumored. He still has difficulties because of his ADHD, like organization. He's still medicated. But many of the behaviors that caused him to get diagnosed are no longer present.

Behaviors can be taught and changed. It's just easier to correct the behaviors of a child than an adult.

Maybe your parents are a lot of the reason you're as socially adept as you are. Or some other mentor in your life. Or maybe reading a lot of books or watching a lot of TV or even just watching a lot of people made you more aware of social-do's and don't s.

Basically, I don't think you should judge yourself based on looking at others. Go with what you feel. If you don't feel like AS is a part of you anymore, then go with what does feel like you.



Dark_Lord_2008
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02 Aug 2011, 1:18 am

Cognitive Behaviour Therapists can teach people skills and help them overcome and deal with their issues in life. Some people with ADHD/Autism spectrum disorders have been cured/treated by Cognitive Behavioural Therapists.

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy can cure/treat Aspergers and ADHD. Children/adults can learn new skills to cope and deal with their issues.



Ettina
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02 Aug 2011, 11:43 am

Quote:
Not true. Autism can now be identified by an MRI scan with a very high degree of accuracy which implies a physical and not environmental cause.


Citation please? The research I've read found some MRI abnormalities that were present in some but not all autistics, and also seen in some non-autistic cognitively disabled/LD people as well.



nemorosa
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02 Aug 2011, 12:03 pm

Ettina wrote:
Quote:
Not true. Autism can now be identified by an MRI scan with a very high degree of accuracy which implies a physical and not environmental cause.


Citation please? The research I've read found some MRI abnormalities that were present in some but not all autistics, and also seen in some non-autistic cognitively disabled/LD people as well.


You didn't spend much time looking did you?

http://www.slam.nhs.uk/media-and-publications/archived-news/slam-experts-win-award-for-mri-autism-scan-breakthrough.aspx

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19291-mri-scans-could-diagnose-autism.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_112644.html

The first link is actually about using MRI in patient diagnosis. This has now gone live at the Maudsley, so it is recognised by the medical community.



Yumeji
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02 Aug 2011, 1:09 pm

quaker wrote:
The doctor i saw over a period of 3 months helped me to use Mindfulness stratigies to manage my difficulties which has been v useful

What are mindfulness strategies?



Callista
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02 Aug 2011, 1:13 pm

It's something that started out in CBT mostly for borderline personality. Basically, if you're aware of yourself in the present moment rather than worrying about the past or the future, you reduce anxiety and have more control over your impulses.


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Verdandi
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02 Aug 2011, 2:40 pm

nemorosa wrote:
Ettina wrote:
Quote:
Not true. Autism can now be identified by an MRI scan with a very high degree of accuracy which implies a physical and not environmental cause.


Citation please? The research I've read found some MRI abnormalities that were present in some but not all autistics, and also seen in some non-autistic cognitively disabled/LD people as well.


You didn't spend much time looking did you?

http://www.slam.nhs.uk/media-and-publications/archived-news/slam-experts-win-award-for-mri-autism-scan-breakthrough.aspx

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19291-mri-scans-could-diagnose-autism.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_112644.html

The first link is actually about using MRI in patient diagnosis. This has now gone live at the Maudsley, so it is recognised by the medical community.


I had this link open from yesterday:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/210102.php

This google search: autism identified by MRI scan



swbluto
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02 Aug 2011, 3:32 pm

Buck-oh wrote:
anneurysm wrote:
When I hang out with people on the spectrum...as much as I enjoy learning about them, I feel embarrassed for them because they are socially awkward and can clearly see what their 'mistakes' are. I also can't make the emotional connections with them that I make with my NT friends, so I don't have as much fun with them.

However, when I am with my NT friends, I am more likely to be scrutinized and picked on. I am extremely upset and obsessing over this one situation where this one friend...one of my closest and one who I thought I trusted, said some nasty things about me. I have also been ditched as a friend and even bullied by tons of other NTs as recently as around this time last year.

Just looking for someone who understands this.


You sound like a somewhat socially awkward NT, who needs to pick better NT friends. Since NTs are basically "everyone else", you're going to find a wide variety of behaviors and skills in the way they socialize. (Also, I'd say that most NTs feel a little socially awkward, even if they don't make it apparent).

Your statement about making better emotional connections with NTs suggests you "get" them...and not on some superficial level. That would make me think you're probably an NT.

Being weird, even as an NT, is okay. People who can relate to you on some level will tend to not focus on the things that make you different. Most of these mysterious "social rules" that all NTs are supposed to follow are nonsense, as long as you're not creeping someone out, most other NTs will overlook the quirky behaviors. The only NTs who nitpick about quirks are usually NTs who are incredibly insecure about themselves (because they too, are afraid someone might expose them as "different").

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This is not something I can easliy change though. It stems from seeing my former self in them...and feeling an urge to 'correct' everything, just like I did with myself.


People tend to hate in others what they hate in themselves. Don't judge yourself too harshly about it, that's pretty much human nature.

BTDT wrote:
The reality is that you still have AS, which is why you have trouble making friends with NTs.


NTs sometimes have trouble making friends with NTs. NT's social maturity differs with each individual. "Normal" development is the result of averaging, not an exact scale that is applicable to all NTs that are expected to happen like clockwork. And someone who's a little behind in one area of development may be compensating in an area of development where he's advanced for his age or peer group.


Fundamentally, I would also think he/she's probably NT in his perception though there's a good chance this person is more autistic than average and probably more shy/introverted than average as a child.

To the OP:
The fact that you can accurately, quickly and intuitively read social situations, cues and facial expressions and the way you can quickly and intuitively identify others' "mistakes" suggests that it's fundamental. It's true that aspies can adapt and learn to read situations better, but doing so "quickly" like an average NT is very unlikely to the point of being able to socially function well. Sure, you can get quicker, but not quick and/or accurately enough, I would think. And, I'm referring to the perceptual side of the equation, not the response side. You can quicken your responses, but your real-time perceptual characteristics are relatively stable.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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03 Aug 2011, 12:34 am

swbluto wrote:
. . . To the OP:
The fact that you can accurately, quickly and intuitively read social situations, cues and facial expressions and the way you can quickly and intuitively identify others' "mistakes" suggests that it's fundamental. It's true that aspies can adapt and learn to read situations better, but doing so "quickly" like an average NT is very unlikely to the point of being able to socially function well. . .

I think that's because we're trying to "left brain" it.

I definitely have some aspie traits. For example, I like to stim by squeezing and twisting a soft T-shirt as I imagine sports or movies.

And yet, I often feel I can respond to people in an more intuitive manner. (Much of the social skill "training" I think is actually counter-productive.) Instead, I've had success with some of the following:

Making a conscious decision to turn down my internal censor so that the default setting is that it's probably okay to go ahead and say it, unless it jumps out at me as clearly inappropriate.

If someone needs space, give them space, without the intermediate step of asking whether they should need space. And same with myself.

Being open to appreciating others. Different than appreciating others, which is more of a force. What I'm talking about is a more softly allowing it to happen, almost in zen like fashion.

Realizing some NTs are jerks, or just disinterested, or not at their best.

Realizing that a conversation or interaction has a rhythm and allowing it graciously come to an end.

Letting a medium mistake on my part just be a medium mistake.

And probably other things as well.

-----

So, this is what has worked for me. I'm not saying it's everyone's cup of tea

And I do think the point is engagement, not just conformity.

I am not trying to 'pass.' I am trying to be accepted on my own terms as a valued person who has things to contribute.

At a department store over Christmas, I was treated as a manager emeritus by some of the younger employees. Well, it helps that I'm an older guy in my 40s. But also, I'm an approachable individual, I try to be constructive, and I've worked at explaining things without overexplaining. At the same time, I experienced bullying behavior by some commission sales people who resented having an extra person there.



anneurysm
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07 Aug 2011, 11:32 am

I'd like to thank everyone for helping me work through this. I have an anxiety disorder, and the way if often manifests is that I analyse situations like this to death and second guess myself constantly. Often, it's with the same questions constantly, and so if I tend to talk about this a lot on WP, I apologize.

I guess the general consensus for now is that somehow I have overcome most of my traits to the degree where I'm not seen as awkward, and i just have to portray myself in a different light than most people on the spectrum. My AS was more of an issue as a kid, and in my engagements with the AS community, I just simply have to phrase myself this way.

Taylor Morris of Youtube fame seems to take a similar approach, and people seem to love her for it. I can tell she isn't fully NT (I can still see a bit of AS in her) but she seems to be confident enough to emphasise that things are much easier for her.

I can use this to my advantage while speaking and conducting sessions in that I can translate between both worlds. It's not like I'm fully NT though, as I definitely still have traits. I honestly believe that I have an AS brain, but because of my high level of anxiety, self-conciousness and perfectionism, I seem to inhibit things that would have me pegged as AS.


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Given a “tentative” diagnosis as a child as I needed services at school for what was later correctly discovered to be a major anxiety disorder.

This misdiagnosis caused me significant stress, which lessened upon finding out the truth about myself from my current and past long-term psychiatrists - that I am a highly sensitive person but do not have an autism spectrum disorder

My diagnoses - anxiety disorder, depression and traits of obsessive-compulsive disorder (all in remission).

I’m no longer involved with the ASD world.


fairie_child
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07 Aug 2011, 12:02 pm

I totally relate. The anxiety coupled with the AS tendency to perseverate causes a lot of problems for me. I get stuck on a problem and get all upset and then I can't stop thinking about it. I'm taking a mild antidepressant/anti anxiety pill and learning meditation and going to counseling and it is helping me to learn how to intentionally calm down and change my thoughts.

Also I have adapted so well in adulthood that my AS is not readily apparent, but I can remember how different my thoughts were as a kid. I can look back and see how my brain matured over time and I became less autistic and more NT. My autism is not ALL gone, but I can pass for shy and quiet.



Artros
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07 Aug 2011, 1:43 pm

anneurysm wrote:
I'd like to thank everyone for helping me work through this. I have an anxiety disorder, and the way if often manifests is that I analyse situations like this to death and second guess myself constantly. Often, it's with the same questions constantly, and so if I tend to talk about this a lot on WP, I apologize.

I guess the general consensus for now is that somehow I have overcome most of my traits to the degree where I'm not seen as awkward, and i just have to portray myself in a different light than most people on the spectrum. My AS was more of an issue as a kid, and in my engagements with the AS community, I just simply have to phrase myself this way.

Taylor Morris of Youtube fame seems to take a similar approach, and people seem to love her for it. I can tell she isn't fully NT (I can still see a bit of AS in her) but she seems to be confident enough to emphasise that things are much easier for her.

I can use this to my advantage while speaking and conducting sessions in that I can translate between both worlds. It's not like I'm fully NT though, as I definitely still have traits. I honestly believe that I have an AS brain, but because of my high level of anxiety, self-conciousness and perfectionism, I seem to inhibit things that would have me pegged as AS.


I think most of us understand the concept of overanalysing. I'm glad you have found your peace.


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