Socially awkward NTs

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I've been wondering about this and was hoping you guys could clear it up for me. Obviously there are a lot of NTs who are socially awkward, anxious, too "nerdy," or otherwise just not up to the task of getting along with people. What differentiates their social issues from people who have similar problems related to ASD? I know there are other hallmarks of ASD social issues like inability to read body language or understand sarcasm/certain types of humor, but a lot of people with Aspergers claim they don't have those problems, so where is the line drawn between a person with Aspergers and an awkward NT?

I'm thinking that the line in the specific case is how your life is effected.

It's a matter of disability. When an individual can not operate in the way that society expects and the individual's life is constrained by this then it is AS. Of course a full diagnosis is needed for all areas.

I'm sure this definition is wrongish and clumsy.

All I know is people with AS have a different way of thinking and see things different and perceives things different and processes information differently.

I wonder if it's possible to have a normal social IQ and still be socially awkward.

I wonder if there is a name for people who have social issues but lack all the other autistic traits but yet they are socially impaired?

I've read this a lot but I've never understood exactly how that manifests itself.



Easily, yeah. Tons of people without autism are.

In my observation, the socially awkward NTs usually were able to form multiple friendships among others that were weird/nerdy or otherwise rejected from society.

In contrast, for those with AS, while they do also tend to gravitate towards friendships with other misfits, they struggle to handle more than one or two of those relationships. Also people with AS will struggle to maintain those friendships causing them to be of a more short term nature.



Secondly awkward NTs do not show any of the other characteristic traits of AS: Sensory issues, executive dysfunction, hand flapping, narrow interests.

What differentiates them is that they don't meet the criteria for AS/ASD, nor do they have any characteristics which are strongly associated with such things, for example, hypersensitivity.

They could low self esteem or social anxiety which is the root of their social troubles, or they could be the opposite of that and just not care much for social norms. I knew a boy when I was younger who was by all accounts awkward and nerdy. He was overweight, usually had food on his shirt, had a lisp and usually had his mouth hanging open because his nose was stuffy, but he was smart (he's actually a very esteemed scientist now), and he was very friendly, and got along well with others and he was usually the first person in a group to interact with other children.

Most socially awkward people who do not have AS don't struggle with non-social aspects that those with AS do.

My opinion would be that people with mild AS such as myself cannot see the social cues even though they desperately want to and therefore cant easily improve their social awkwardness. I would say that there are a different set of people (NT's?) who are socially awkward because of other issues ie they know how not to be but extreme shyness or selfishness or greed or anxiety makes them exhibit some of the socially awkward traits that people with AS have but if they werent shy or selfish they would be abe to conform to societal norms.
I have come to the conclusion I have AS because I tick most of the boxes on the tests and contrary to what the teachers at school used to say Im not shy, and I dont lack confidence to speak to people or find friends I just dont understand how. If I knew when it was my turn to speak and I could find those some words to say when I needed them then I would have lots of friends and be really outgoing, but I believe I lack those functions in my brain as opposed their use being impaired by my personality.

I know an NT who is socially awkward. She is a manager in a shop, and seems to have a very big social life, but to me she is very socially awkward, and I've only noticed this in her, nobody else. She may be a manager, but she is one of those managers who is like a mate to you too, not just somebody seen as a strict authority figure. She isn't strict or proffessional even. She just does all the paperwork, and that's it. But I've never seen her have a full conversation with anybody before, even though she seems more popular than the other manager who runs it with her. The other manager is like a mate to you too, but she isn't socially awkward. But the first manager is very closed-minded, and she never has a proper conversation with anybody. Whenever she does open her mouth, she always does that joke-type bickering with other people, which gets on my nerves in the end. I feel like saying, ''look, talk properly, please!'' Either that, or she's in a bad mood and starts moaning for real. God knows how her husband puts up with her. Her teenage son has become like her aswell now, so it's obvious she's like this at home too.

But, like Aspies, NTs are all different. Even if NTs are socially awkward, they always seem to find a way around it to be able to fit in eventually.

Mouth breather, speech impediment, unfixed gaze, I had these traits too. One of my friends told a group of schoolmates that I was ret*d, and because of my general slackjawed, unfocused facial expression, and the lisp, they had no problem believing it. It was a bit embarrassing when one of them told me about it years later, but at that point, not a big deal.

My approach was to decide I actually like human beings, and not be bitter and defensive, and it worked for me. If I put too much energy into thinking about a social transaction (like rehearsing, or considering multiple outcomes) it usually went bad. I still have the lisp (though it's not as bad), gave up on figuring out the eye contact thing years ago, still breathe through my mouth, but I took the time to learn how to smile and realize that people are not always the sum of their observable actions. People will overlook the other oddities if what they see is a friendly face.

When someone else asked me this I suggested he look at the Gillberg criteria for a diagnosis. While it requires more than DSM-IV does, it tends to be a good list of traits.

It's a difficult line to draw.

I do see some very genuinely awkward people who have some spectrum-like traits, but aren't impaired in some of the more *debilitating* areas that people on the spectrum are.

And then I see people who easily could be on the spectrum and aren't even all that awkward and have better social skills than some NTs.

So I don't know, but I know what you mean, lol.

Also, fwiw, the socially awkward thing has become a bit of a trend.

I've seen a lot of NTs PURPOSEFULLY act more awkward than they actually are, and I don't care if that sounds crazy.

I imagine 3 or 4 ways in this can occur.

1 - A person can simply be uninterested in social relationships. After all, it there are intelligent people who have low grades at school because lack of motivation, disliking school, etc, why can not be "social intelligent" people with "low grades" at social life because lack of motivation, disliking social rules, etc.?

2 - Simply lack of training - imagine that you are a only child, perhaps living in the countryside with an old grandma, and did not participate in extracurricular activities at school. Much probably you will grow up as a social awkward person.

3.1 - Being excessive risk-adverse: a person can be more shy or withdraw than the others, not because any difficulty in understanding social situations, but because he has more fear of committing a social mistake (two persons, with the same degree of "social intelligence" can look to a situation and think "I am 90% sure the better action to do is [X]"; however, if one of them only acts when when he is 95% sure that this is the correct thing to do, he will stand quiet, while the other much probably will do [X].

3.2 - Being excessive risk-taker - the opposite mechanism; in this case, the person will do many socially inappropriate things because he was not afraid of taking risks in ambiguous social situations

The "case 2" can interact with the cases "1" e "3.1" in a self-reinforcing feedback



The "case 1" is similar to Schizoid Personality Disorder (and perhaps some cases of ADD-PI), the "case 3.1" to Social Anxiety and Avoidant Personality Disorder, and perhaps we have the "3.2" in some cases of ADHD, conduct disorder or "Cluster B" personality disorders.

However, two points:

- perhaps the cases "1", "3.1" and "3.2" are not really NTs (depending of what we mean by NT - simply someone who is not autistic, or someone with a normal brain?): after all, if someone has a social desire much lower than the normal, or a fear of taking risks much higher or much lower than the normal, it is very probable that there is some difference in his brain creating these differences in behavior

- autism (and perhaps the majority, or almost all, of the conditions in the DSM) is defined by the behavior, not by the causes of the behavior - then, if someone have the same external behavior of an autistic, perhaps this mean that, by definition, he is autistic, even if the reasons for the behavior are different.