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Which best describes a similarity to your understanding of the autism acceptance idea?
To accept an individual with autism and embrace who they are regardless of whether they choose a cure to be developed for different symptoms.. 73%  73%  [ 11 ]
To accept autism as simply a difference and concepts such as cure mean non-acceptance. 27%  27%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 15

ci
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15 Aug 2011, 3:51 am

Is the Autism Acceptance Movement different then the autism pride movement or can they simply overlap? Neurodiversity as a movement seems to be allot more then a proclamation of simply a brain diversity existing. In diversity there are all kinds of beliefs, opinions and ideas but when acceptance and even neurodiversity proclaim an agenda that seeks to modify how individuals think there are potential objections. Allow me to outline a few conceptual conflicts which when applicable have arisen or are at risk of becoming relevant.

Acceptance of autism means one or more of the following.

a.) curing autism symptoms is intolerance and is not acceptance.

b.) accepting autism merely means to some accepting people with autism whereas others may think treatment with potential cure means non-acceptance.

c.) To think of autism as a disability is not accepting autism as simply a diversity.


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vermontsavant
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15 Aug 2011, 4:55 am

i dont see things as black and white absolute right v wrong.i believe self respect and treatment can coexist


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ci
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15 Aug 2011, 5:05 am

The problem I think in Public Relations is when (Y) treatment right advancement is confronted by (Z) conceptual framework such as neurodiversity or autism acceptance. The end result (X) especially when popular seems to be that (Z) conceptual framework defines (Y) treatment choice potential as unacceptable. In the absolute sense one cannot absolutely argue anti-cure is necessarily anti-cure for individual symptoms when chosen but popular projections of those representing those views certainly don't commonly detail otherwise. It would be difficult to find it common sense that a public would perceive that anti-cure respects those who want a cure and in facts seeks to support their individual rights to a potential cure for adverse symptoms where applicable.


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15 Aug 2011, 6:02 am

But you could argue that there have been many (y) treatments that have been both unrealistic in it's desired attainments and harmful. So in this situation, an opposing conceptual framework (z) can serve to protect an individual with a misunderstood mental condition (of many kinds, not just autistic), even if this framework is devicive.

It definitely can be argued that the pride movement may be misunderstood to be being against the treatment of co-morbid symptoms, in this case it should state clearly that it is not. And perhaps should take the "curing autism is a waste of time and resources because it is not seperate from the person" kind of line, rather than attacking the idea with emotional sentiment, and should not attack people who want to be cured, only inform them of their view that a cure for autism is an impossibillity.



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15 Aug 2011, 6:52 am

Fortunately since I think quite a few disorders and issues come along with becoming like myself (that's a fact of mutation. If one thing mutates, the chance of other mutations happening are greater than only one) then I never had a dogmatic opposition to cures for some people. To cure myself of what I am though is an insult.

I think the use of the word pride is your petty attempt to marry centrists who have self-respect with supremacists. Any attempt to try and round up moderates with extremists is nothing less than shameless, mind-numbing self-aggrandizement. You have tried desperately to make yourself out as the only person with the right answers and have failed.

I am reminded of when Burzum said that you and I are both throwing us away to some sort of great NT oppressor to be obliterated when he had no evidence of such a united evil. You aren't so shallow as to make up invisible threats. You make out your enemies as threats instead with this talk of 'pride-mites' and other childish remarks. Just quit making wall to wall texts that say nothing but barbed insults to your detractors.



Last edited by Gedrene on 15 Aug 2011, 8:15 am, edited 4 times in total.

Zeraeph
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15 Aug 2011, 7:44 am

Gedrene wrote:
you make out your enemies as threats instead with this talk of 'pride-mites' and other childish remarks. Just quit making wall to wall texts that say nothing but barbed insults to your detractors.


Never a truer word...

Just for the record, I favour Autism Acceptance over "Autistic Pride" if only because I really do not see how something that is just part of who you are can ever be a source of either pride, or shame.

I believe that Autistics, like anyone else, should be able to get te best out of ourselves in the way that work best for us.

I just get very, very angry at the organised exploitation in the name of "help" that not only basically rips off innocent, gullable parents and others but also actively obstructs progress by favouring profit and self-perpetuation over the benefit of autistic people in their areas of research.

I am convinced there is a reason why they are so determined to exclude us from any but symbolic roles...and that reason is simply that true inclusion would mean ceasing to undermine our judgement and integrity in the wider community...which would mean that more people would be listening as we tell the truth about autism and give them all the lie.



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15 Aug 2011, 9:41 am

First of all, I am not a Pide Mite. Stop calling me that.

Secondly, I feel that the Autism Accptance Movement should have started a long time ago when other people with disabilities were starting to gain acceptance. I feel that each person on the spectrum should be accepted as they are and they should be able to make their own decisions as far as the cure is concerned. Many people on the spectrum do not wish to be cured, including myself. Does that make me a Pride Mite? Not by a long shot. I don't post in this forum, because of the way that you contradict all the WP members who disagree with you and call them Pride Mites. If somebody on WP wishes to be cured, that's fine. It's not going to be me, though. I see myself as an interesting person who has a few very quirky special interests. Cockneys, The Kinks and Routemasters. I refuse to take an obsession pill that will take that spark away from me. I lso believe in the sancity of life for all people from conception until natural death, the lives of all autistics included. Does that make me a Pride Mite? No, it makes me Pro-life. I'm also glad that I wasn't put through this hell called ABA therapy. Autistic people don't learn to behave by being cut off from society for 40 hours a week, being taught how to behave by someone telling that they're wrong, every 5 minutes, we learn by being intergraded into society and being around people in a free enviornment. I also wish that Autism Speaks would quit with the sensless pity, shut down and fork over their money to everybody in the world who's in the spectrum and their families.


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vermontsavant
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15 Aug 2011, 10:05 am

i agree that cure should be forced on no one and i dont saport abortion but as far as autism speaks.people on autism speaks have been far nicer to me than people here.most people here are rude and condecending to my posts and no one has ever sent me a private message that wasnt hostile except for one.i dont feel i have any friends on wrong planet.which doesnt bother me because im still here.everyone on AS has always been freindly


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ci
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15 Aug 2011, 12:59 pm

Gedrene wrote:
Fortunately since I think quite a few disorders and issues come along with becoming like myself (that's a fact of mutation. If one thing mutates, the chance of other mutations happening are greater than only one) then I never had a dogmatic opposition to cures for some people. To cure myself of what I am though is an insult.

I think the use of the word pride is your petty attempt to marry centrists who have self-respect with supremacists. Any attempt to try and round up moderates with extremists is nothing less than shameless, mind-numbing self-aggrandizement. You have tried desperately to make yourself out as the only person with the right answers and have failed.

I am reminded of when Burzum said that you and I are both throwing us away to some sort of great NT oppressor to be obliterated when he had no evidence of such a united evil. You aren't so shallow as to make up invisible threats. You make out your enemies as threats instead with this talk of 'pride-mites' and other childish remarks. Just quit making wall to wall texts that say nothing but barbed insults to your detractors.


I have little vested interest to a loyalty to my view of autism politics otherwise I would have attempted. Merely the only goal I have is individual rights and while doing so establishing that one persons view of autism is merely about his or her autism. As far as supremacists I think of that in how I understand this whole unique arrangement as simply a more far extreme of pride. Pride is a political spectrum beginning with an acceptance of a disorder label but that to is vague because ultimately it is perceived in these politics kind of like the autism is a person identity called autistic. People call me autistic so therefor what part of my manifested personality and self is the autism or is it part of one inter-lapping disorder identity that on the surface is merely unavoidable with the other parts due to collective influence of the autism part with the other parts.


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Gedrene
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15 Aug 2011, 1:05 pm

ci wrote:
I have little vested interest to a loyalty to my view of autism politics otherwise I would have attempted. Merely the only goal I have is individual rights and while doing so establishing that one persons view of autism is merely about his or her autism. As far as supremacists I think of that in how I understand this whole unique arrangement as simply a more far extreme of pride. Pride is a political spectrum beginning with an acceptance of a disorder label but that to is vague because ultimately it is perceived in these politics kind of like the autism is a person identity called autistic. People call me autistic so therefor what part of my manifested personality and self is the autism or is it part of one inter-lapping disorder identity that on the surface is merely unavoidable with the other parts due to collective influence of the autism part with the other parts.


Can you do anything but ramble and question other's intent?



ci
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15 Aug 2011, 1:16 pm

Gedrene wrote:
ci wrote:
I have little vested interest to a loyalty to my view of autism politics otherwise I would have attempted. Merely the only goal I have is individual rights and while doing so establishing that one persons view of autism is merely about his or her autism. As far as supremacists I think of that in how I understand this whole unique arrangement as simply a more far extreme of pride. Pride is a political spectrum beginning with an acceptance of a disorder label but that to is vague because ultimately it is perceived in these politics kind of like the autism is a person identity called autistic. People call me autistic so therefor what part of my manifested personality and self is the autism or is it part of one inter-lapping disorder identity that on the surface is merely unavoidable with the other parts due to collective influence of the autism part with the other parts.


Can you do anything but ramble and question other's intent?


You do the exact same thing but I really don't call your writing rambling out of disrespect for your thinking for yourself.


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15 Aug 2011, 1:20 pm

ci wrote:
You do the exact same thing but I really don't call your writing rambling out of disrespect for your thinking for yourself.


I suppose the fact that Gedrene does not actually ramble would be too insignificant to mention in this context?



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15 Aug 2011, 1:21 pm

ci wrote:
You do the exact same thing but I really don't call your writing rambling out of disrespect for your thinking for yourself.


ci: NO U!

Charming. Even when you aren't making monstrously long paragraphs you manage to ramble and make stealth insults.



ci
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15 Aug 2011, 1:23 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
First of all, I am not a Pide Mite. Stop calling me that.

Secondly, I feel that the Autism Accptance Movement should have started a long time ago when other people with disabilities were starting to gain acceptance. I feel that each person on the spectrum should be accepted as they are and they should be able to make their own decisions as far as the cure is concerned. Many people on the spectrum do not wish to be cured, including myself. Does that make me a Pride Mite? Not by a long shot. I don't post in this forum, because of the way that you contradict all the WP members who disagree with you and call them Pride Mites. If somebody on WP wishes to be cured, that's fine. It's not going to be me, though. I see myself as an interesting person who has a few very quirky special interests. Cockneys, The Kinks and Routemasters. I refuse to take an obsession pill that will take that spark away from me. I lso believe in the sancity of life for all people from conception until natural death, the lives of all autistics included. Does that make me a Pride Mite? No, it makes me Pro-life. I'm also glad that I wasn't put through this hell called ABA therapy. Autistic people don't learn to behave by being cut off from society for 40 hours a week, being taught how to behave by someone telling that they're wrong, every 5 minutes, we learn by being intergraded into society and being around people in a free enviornment. I also wish that Autism Speaks would quit with the sensless pity, shut down and fork over their money to everybody in the world who's in the spectrum and their families.


ABA is not the same depends what professional applies it. I currently receive ABA. The system here can be very open minded, accepting and rights orientated. Pride-mites was a made up word to socially counter the curebe name calling that went on for years and that few spoke against. To me it's about social peer pressure so a few uses of the word pride-mite there is no reason to be victim of. For years people with autism who want a cure have been bullied online to the point in many social circles to the point of peer based exclusion. If a person supported a cure they were called names and what would seem like be called a trader of sorts.

I think your views of ABA, Autism Speaks and your abortion slant on politics of other issues is biased riddled and do not have enough observant fact. IT's an opinion nonetheless. Autism Speaks should not give you money people with autism and others support the organization in what they do already and they might do more different things in the future. Ultimately I percieve what your asking for such as compensation is kind of like black mail. Either they give you money or you will speak against them. Keep talking because no one is going to hand you money.


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15 Aug 2011, 1:26 pm

This seems to be a comprehensive analysis of ABA:

Quote:
ABA is a system of conditioning to modify appearance and behaviours...perfectly fine when topically applied to a specific external behaviour that would be far more harmful otherwise...let me take an obvious example - uncontrollable meltdowns in the car...a clear and present danger to the autie, the driver and other road users that justifies ABA (or any one of a few other things not otherwise considered terribly benign).

But when you embark upon a general strategy of early intensive conditioning, what you are doing is the exact equivalent of conditioning a small boy to adopt every appearance and behaviour of a girl, while still being, and feeling like a boy inside. It doesn't matter which particuler enforcers you use, because it is the intensity which they are applied and the nature of the goal that does most of the damage.

All by itself that is a petrie dish for emotional damage and personality disorder.

Meanwhile the nature that the target individual has been artificially conditioned to reject and suppress, does not go away, it becomes interiorised as a conditioned prejudice against self and spontaneity, another petrie dish for emotional damage and personality disorder.

ABA conditioning is liable to be aimed at conditioning the target's outward behaviour and appearance to to outstrip his internal resources to follow through on it socially and emotionally, so that, instead of falling on his face at ground zero as he would have orginally done, he gets a few steps higher up, before falling on his face just as inevitably, but with far greater pain and damage.

ABA is also usually heavily reliant on synthesising a high level of dependence upon social and emotional validation that does not exist in autistics in any natural form, despite the fact that an autistic will never have the social and emotional skills to be able to form the relationships needed to continue that social validation in a healthy ways and, given the perseverative nature of autism are bound to feel driven to seek out the validation they have been trained to depend on by unhealthy means.

It is not healthy for any child to be raised surrounded by human beings trained and habituated to a dysfunctional level of control over the behaviour of other human beings. This phenomenon has been proven to exist over and over again in both individuals and organisations, the more sensationalised instances being in the various "prison" type experiments (loosely based on the work of Millgram) that have been conducted where one group of volunteers are designated subordinate to the other who are given sweeping powers to control and punish.

The ABAI has, demonstrably, taken on many of the common attributes of a cult as a side effect of the same phenomenon, and the absence of external, independent monitoring and regulation.

Early intensive ABA has been around for 30 years, yet there is not one single follow up study on the social vocational, material, educational and emotional effects of early, intensive ABA in adult life. Not one...

Also, there are no anecdotal accounts, for, or against from adults with Autism who were conditioned with early intensive ABA.

That deficit is dowright sinister.

Now for the evidence.

Just make yourself comfortable and watch for the next ten years as every word I have said here is proved over and over. My argument cannot lose...


Apparently we do now have one, single anecdotal account...which, of it's nature, is far from reassuring regarding the above.