The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine

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What's the point of all the foregoing fatuousness?



The question is puerile. All people have a right to exist.

But at least we have you acknowledging the need for the State of Israel to exist.

So drop all the "ethnic cleansing" agitprop and come back to the table with those of us who are willing to talk sensibly about how to create capacity within the Palestinian people to maintain a stable government, and put the territory in their hands. How do they rid themselves of Iran and Hamas? How can they enjoy the benefits from the economic development that they have managed to create in the West Bank? How do we get another Parliamentary democracy created in the Middle East?

The truth is that Fatah is so very nearly there. The Palestinian Authority outranks all of it's Arab neighbours (with the possible exception of Lebanon) on The Economists Freedom Index. While it is still a "hybrid regime," it would not take too much to bring it up into the ranks of "flawed democracies" with Israel (and Italy and France, for that matter).

Inflammatory language will not help the Palestinian people--all it will do is stiffen the resolve of Israel and her supporters. But an engagement of responsible diplomacy, from a government that can commit on behalf of its people can make all the difference in the world.

I was referring to the second part of his post. I think that was the main point that visagrunt was making? The comment about Jordan was a throwaway thing. It probably didn't seem that way to you and I can see why you're offended, but I think it was meant that way.

I'm totally ignorant about the ethnic origins of Palestinians. I guess I should have cut the first part of his post out, instead of quoting it's entirety. I agreed wtih visagrunt's point that we need to focus on the reality as it exists rather than using ancient tribal loyalties as an argument. We can neither remove Israel nor can we deny the rights of Palestinians.

When they stop bombing Israel they might get my sympathy, for what it's worth. Until then I'll consider them similar to other nasties that inhabit this world.

Your views are too one-sided in that matter.

From what I can tell, the Israelis can be pretty brutal and nasty at times, you'll get no argument from me on that. However, we either look to a democratic, stable, Westernised system of government or we look to Islamist, Jew-hating savages.

I've read many posts of yours and I am starting to decrypt your logic on that matter .

To you

Israeli = civilized Middle-eastern.

Non-Israeli Middle-eastern = savage Middle-eastern.

Fine, that's your opinion.

But the savages' view on most of the Israelis will remain the same, whether peace happened or not = Non-Middle eastern Polish/Russian/European/foreigner invaders.


and Turkey's current rulers are closer to Islamists and they're doing a pretty good job regarding democracy and stability.

I think that what the Palestinians are doing is what humans naturally do when their land has been taken away. When I hear about what Palestinians are doing I am reminded of the things that Native Americans once did to European settlers that made the settlers call them "savages". That's what happens when you take someone's land away.

Also, I don't think anti-Zionist Palestinian behavior is motivated by Islamism.

Pretty close, however Middle East's savages won't give up like America's savages.

Israelis do not use children as explosive devices.

True. But in a down and dirty fire fight they are more likely to use other people's children as explosive devices, or at least blow them up. That is the nature of war, particularly close quarter urban war.

ruveyn

I think the Ashkenazim should embrace the Levantine ape the customs of the Mizrahim.
If they really are from there act like it leave Germany in Germany.
there was a trend in this direction it produced a lot of hummus eating and a resurrection of Hebrew.
But I think Israel should embrace pan-arabism with themselves defined as Arabs.
or at least acknowledge that there is a leventine culture (a mix of Jews Muslims christians and Druze)
and that they should strive to be part of it.

They will eventually. Like Jews in America.

Yodah says: Hold not your breath, else blue turn you will.

ruveyn

Another couple of hundred years, after the Jews are outnumbered. Some future generation of Israelis will be like the hippies of our 1960s, and have big love-ins with their Moslem and Christian neighbors.

With all the counter-revolutionaries and inter-factional strife that that will entail.

It seems to me this is pretty much the opposite of the truth, and I trust I am allowed to make a general observation of my own here.
The majority of jews, as far as I have observed, are "plagued with a sense" of the "anti-semitism" (i.e., guilt) of the rest of the world, and rarely consider that what they call "anti-semitism" could have anything to do with jewish anti-Gentilism.