What really matters to the Judeo-Christian God

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Master_Pedant
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28 Aug 2011, 3:34 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCJ8rb8Grw[/youtube]

The clip at the start of the Fundie Christian throwing a hissy fit is really funny. Honestly, if you're 100% sure that you know an infallible, divine being's will, then why the hell does it matter if said persons will is plastered over courthouses or not? Fundies, I have grown to realize, are fundamentally intellectually insecure of their own beliefs and this is only worsened by the fact that most atheists they debate probably know more about their holy book than they do.


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28 Aug 2011, 3:57 pm

Gopi Krishna put it well.

Image



cw10
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28 Aug 2011, 4:06 pm

Maybe this atheist (as identified by his video) should actually learn the bible instead of just reading it.

It's not a flashy video, doesn't have goofy music that fits the maturity of a 6 year old, but he speaks the gospel properly.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-IL80qn348[/youtube]

I expect to get a lot of criticism for this response which is expected. The truth hurts. Go ahead, lash out, it's what some people do best as exampled by the OP's video post.



Awesomelyglorious
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28 Aug 2011, 4:33 pm

The video assumes too much on "every Christian". Obviously some Christians are going to update their faith and admit that much of what we hear about Moses is fiction. (In fact, the golden calf story was likely a political one because in archeological history, there were Jewish communities with golden calves)

At the same time though, the point does look valid. These are stone tablets referred to as the Ten Commandments. At the same time though, I am not really sure if I feel great need for concern on that point.



Awesomelyglorious
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28 Aug 2011, 4:50 pm

cw10 wrote:
Maybe this atheist (as identified by his video) should actually learn the bible instead of just reading it.

You didn't engage the point. The atheist's point was simple and that technically the ten commandments refers to a different set of rules than what we traditionally consider to be the ten commandments.

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I expect to get a lot of criticism for this response which is expected. The truth hurts. Go ahead, lash out, it's what some people do best as exampled by the OP's video post.

What criticism? Your guy is an idiot, but there is nothing more to say. Basic criminology teaches us that crimes, including violent crimes, have been declining for decades, so his point that "we live in a dangerous society because we aren't following God's commands" is empirically false, as we live in a safer society despite following these commands less. In fact, we quite clearly have the most successful society in history by almost any metric and the notion that we are less successful than past societies is in many ways quite ridiculous, but that is the claim that this man seems to make. His other point that the death penalty protects us: a) Isn't actually supported by scripture, as scripture makes this issue deontological, not consequentialist. b) Is empirically contested. In fact, the empirics of the matter would likely suggest that it is false, but I am not an expert on the matter. The issue is just that criminals tend to respond less to the degree of punishment, and more to the certainty they will get caught, and as it stands, much of the harshness of punishment in nations, such as the US, is actually considered overblown relative to what the field of criminology would tend to tell us about punishing folks.

There is nothing more I really care to say further though. The video is off-topic. I really have no issue with the OT being in favor of executing individuals. The "harshness of God's law" is a reason I do think claims to the moral perfection of the Christian deity are just literally absurd. I don't have anything important to really say about the issue though, and I doubt the video gets more interesting past the halfway mark or wherever it is that I will stop.

Just to be clear though, I doubt that you actually are posting out of some concern for the truth. If you were, then your video would not likely be so off-topic.



Philologos
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28 Aug 2011, 6:41 pm

For better or worse, the videos are lost on me, but - given the thread head:

lest we forget - all of us:

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?



pandabear
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28 Aug 2011, 8:55 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCJ8rb8Grw[/youtube]

The clip at the start of the Fundie Christian throwing a hissy fit is really funny. Honestly, if you're 100% sure that you know an infallible, divine being's will, then why the hell does it matter if said persons will is plastered over courthouses or not? Fundies, I have grown to realize, are fundamentally intellectually insecure of their own beliefs and this is only worsened by the fact that most atheists they debate probably know more about their holy book than they do.


Thanks for that. We've previously argued the Ten Commandments, but I wasn't aware that the Ten Commandments are actually far different from what most of us learned in Sunday School.

The Fifth one: "No-one is to appear before me without an offering"

should help the Evango-Fascists raise money.



Master_Pedant
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28 Aug 2011, 9:54 pm

cw10 wrote:
Maybe this atheist (as identified by his video) should actually learn the bible instead of just reading it.


I'm willing to bet that most of the various atheists who helped out with the"an atheist reads the bible" series have probably done more critical reading and analysis of the Bible than you have.

cw10 wrote:
It's not a flashy video, doesn't have goofy music that fits the maturity of a 6 year old, but he speaks the gospel properly.


Funny, the music in that series certainly doesn't seem very 6 year old-ish, whereas the content, tone, and lame-ass theme music at the end of your video seems more like the type of crap a Sunday School teacher would give to five year olds.

cw10 wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-IL80qn348[/youtube]


Wow, I just spent nearly 11 minutes (longer than my video) watching a video that, if I'm being generous, is relevant to the 0.5% (30 seconds) of material in my video where the guy makes asides about how trigger happy OT believers have been over the years. I think those were certainly meant in jest, are definitely tangential to the main point of the video, as already stated take up very little time, and were aimed at people who think the KJV is the literal world of God. If you want a bit more critical Bible reading, let me just say using other parts of the bible to interpret a section of the bible is next to useless, as the bible had multiple authors with differing agendas.

cw10 wrote:
I expect to get a lot of criticism for this response which is expected. The truth hurts.


Here's a better set of explanations for why people will probably criticize your reponse.

  • It was nearly eleven minutes of mostly irrelevant material.
  • You chatised a well made video as being geared towards six year olds, then posted a crappy, simplistic video.
  • The video's claims of an increasingly unsafe society due to a failure to follow the "stone gays and adulterers" morality of the filfthy Bible and Christo-Fascists is flat out ludicrious. In developed nations, income equality and the legalization of abortion have had a greater effect on homicides than the death pentalty.
  • Incidentally, that man is wrong about most Christians interpreting the Bible as barring the death penalty, if the tremendous amounts of support for State Exectuions in the hyper-religious death south are any indication. He might be right about Catholics, though.
  • Many secular countries without death penalties have lower murder rates than murderous Christian America. The cop out of the death penalty not being "immediate enough" is pretty lame, if someone hears about someone being executed today for a murder committed 20 years ago, the prospect of being killed over murder would probably still stay in their minds. The dog analogy fails, as you're harming the dog to teach it a lesson, not to teach other dogs a lesson.
  • The "check" against abuses - namely killing Prosecutors for perjury as a deterrant to wrongful convictions/executions - is obscene given how hard perjury would be to prove on top of the fact that not all false executions result from perjury - some are the result of honest mistakes.
  • And, on top of that, why doesn't god just strike down murderers (as this lame ass fundie pseudo-scholar claims he assuredly doesn't and instead delegates that responsibility to fallible humanity)? It'd be a hell of a lot surer a way of executing only the guilty, given Yawheh's infallibility (something prosecutors lack).
  • Lastly, you're likely to be called on in this thread as your post confirms a pattern - you staying stupid crap (like "Popper was a Nutvu Marxist) - that seems to indicate a lack of finer mental faculities. In addition, rank stupidity is generally quite annoying.


cw10 wrote:
Go ahead, lash out, it's what some people do best as exampled by the OP's video post.


Given that you probably stopped watching the video after the first 50 seconds, I really doubt you're qualified to comment on it.


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Philologos
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28 Aug 2011, 10:22 pm

Gee I am glad I can't watch these videos.

Could we just stipulate

A. We is ALL [not only, but not excluding the pure and pious] sinners - if you don't like the sin concept, try "people who harm self and others"

B. There MUST exist some things that not everybody knows about.

And get on with it?



Awesomelyglorious
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28 Aug 2011, 10:33 pm

M_P, I would love it if at some point you started parodying your hammer on walnut posting style. Just don't tell us and see if we catch it. You posted an 8 bullet list ALONG with other content on a troll. That amuses me, and not necessarily in a negative way at that.



Master_Pedant
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28 Aug 2011, 10:59 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
M_P, I would love it if at some point you started parodying your hammer on walnut posting style. Just don't tell us and see if we catch it. You posted an 8 bullet list ALONG with other content on a troll. That amuses me, and not necessarily in a negative way at that.


Given that I watched a 10 minute, 47 second video where someone spouted such dumbass lines as "the way to reduce false executions is to execute lawyers for perjury", I had to let off steam.


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Awesomelyglorious
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28 Aug 2011, 11:02 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Given that I watched a 10 minute, 47 second video where someone spouted such dumbass lines as "the way to reduce false executions is to execute lawyers for perjury", I had to let off steam.

You actually watched the entire video??? Wow.... You're crazy. That being said, yeah.... the video was incredibly stupid. I mean, all of your points are true, and as I mentioned, overviews of crime over time have shown a general decline. I mean.... oy... ridiculous all the way through.



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28 Aug 2011, 11:10 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
... Honestly, if you're 100% sure that you know an infallible, divine being's will, then why the hell does it matter if said persons will is plastered over courthouses or not? Fundies, I have grown to realize, are fundamentally intellectually insecure of their own beliefs and this is only worsened by the fact that most atheists they debate probably know more about their holy book than they do.

^ Thus marks the end of all further discussion on the topic (imo). ^


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Master_Pedant
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28 Aug 2011, 11:37 pm

Philologos wrote:
Gee I am glad I can't watch these videos.


My video's thesis was pretty much this --> http://sbpoley.home.xs4all.nl/essays/te ... ments.html


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Master_Pedant
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28 Aug 2011, 11:46 pm

pandabear wrote:
Thanks for that. We've previously argued the Ten Commandments, but I wasn't aware that the Ten Commandments are actually far different from what most of us learned in Sunday School.


Glad to be of service undetermining Christian indoctrination's selectiveness when it come to the Old Testament.


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