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ci
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11 Sep 2011, 12:56 pm

Alright Mr .G I get it. If you do not want to realize something you make claims to the contrary without evidence yourself. My conversation with you has ended as of now. I was speaking about a macro political awareness movement as manifest in the micro politics of individuals whom also stake claim to pride. Not everyone with autism or everyone on this forum.

Also the Nazi stuff is really old.


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Gedrene
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11 Sep 2011, 1:35 pm

ci wrote:
If you do not want to realize something you make claims to the contrary without evidence yourself. My conversation with you has ended as of now. I was speaking about a macro political awareness movement as manifest in the micro politics of individuals whom also stake claim to pride. Not everyone with autism or everyone on this forum.

Also the Nazi stuff is really old.

You accused me of saying that I compared the USA to Nazis! If you don't like it then don't bring it up! It's in the thread about sacrificing truth for political convenience thread or something. page 8. I don't see why I need proof to ask you to give proof for anything!



ci
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11 Sep 2011, 1:43 pm

Yes you did. I don't want to spend 15 minutes again looking something up. A behavioral comparison in context to the anti eugenics pride.

-------
First: Where did they say human cleansing?
Second: [i]Just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean other people wont do it

Third: Just because the Americans fought the Nazis doesn't mean they wont ever do anything wrong
Fourth: Just because your father fought for a country doesn't mean the people in that country are faultless.
Fifth: How does saying that just because the Nazis did it mean it is less likely to happen? [/i]
------------

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt173674.html


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Gedrene
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11 Sep 2011, 1:50 pm

ci wrote:
Yes you did. I don't want to spend 15 minutes again looking something up. A behavioral comparison in context to the anti eugenics pride.

-------
First: Where did they say human cleansing?
Second: [i]Just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean other people wont do it

Third: Just because the Americans fought the Nazis doesn't mean they wont ever do anything wrong
Fourth: Just because your father fought for a country doesn't mean the people in that country are faultless.
Fifth: How does saying that just because the Nazis did it mean it is less likely to happen? [/i]
------------

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt173674.html


Saying that just because the Nazis did something something wrong that other people wont do it and saying that just because Americans fought the Nazis they wont do something wrong does not mean that I compared the USA to Nazis. Furthermore how do you justify accusing AlanTuring of doing so too? In the end it sounds like you twisted the first two points I made to mean the second! So all those accusations of manipulation you make against me now seem a lot more heinously contadictory!



ci
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11 Sep 2011, 1:52 pm

Gedrene wrote:
ci wrote:
Yes you did. I don't want to spend 15 minutes again looking something up. A behavioral comparison in context to the anti eugenics pride.

-------
First: Where did they say human cleansing?
Second: [i]Just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean other people wont do it

Third: Just because the Americans fought the Nazis doesn't mean they wont ever do anything wrong
Fourth: Just because your father fought for a country doesn't mean the people in that country are faultless.
Fifth: How does saying that just because the Nazis did it mean it is less likely to happen? [/i]
------------

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt173674.html


Saying that just because the Nazis did something something wrong that other people wont do it and saying that just because Americans fought the Nazis they wont do something wrong does not mean that I compared the USA to Nazis. Furthermore how do you justify accusing AlanTuring of doing so too? In the end it sounds like you twisted the first two points I made to mean the second! So all those accusations of manipulation you make against me now seem a lot more heinously contadictory!


Mr. G in behavioral comparison to the Nazi's is bad politics. That's what you did. With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant. This is mainstream politics and has nothing to do with Nazi's


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Gedrene
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11 Sep 2011, 1:58 pm

ci wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
ci wrote:
Yes you did. I don't want to spend 15 minutes again looking something up. A behavioral comparison in context to the anti eugenics pride.

-------
First: Where did they say human cleansing?
Second: [i]Just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean other people wont do it

Third: Just because the Americans fought the Nazis doesn't mean they wont ever do anything wrong
Fourth: Just because your father fought for a country doesn't mean the people in that country are faultless.
Fifth: How does saying that just because the Nazis did it mean it is less likely to happen? [/i]
------------

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt173674.html


Saying that just because the Nazis did something something wrong that other people wont do it and saying that just because Americans fought the Nazis they wont do something wrong does not mean that I compared the USA to Nazis. Furthermore how do you justify accusing AlanTuring of doing so too? In the end it sounds like you twisted the first two points I made to mean the second! So all those accusations of manipulation you make against me now seem a lot more heinously contadictory!


Mr. G in behavioral comparison to the Nazi's is bad politics. That's what you did. With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant. This is mainstream politics and has nothing to do with Nazi's

What? I can't believe this! Are you reading the same posts? This is atrocious! You are just ignoring me!



ci
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11 Sep 2011, 2:07 pm

The conversation was in context to Eugenics claims and calling others Nazi's and the compared the behavior of wrong in context to the Nazi's to the topic at hand. As far as pride not being beyond this forum that is false to. If you did the research I asked you or if you have and want to ignore the reality of this pride anti-cure politic then that's your choice. I am not wasting my time with someone who will ignore fact to win an argument by going on and on about it hoping to win by boring me to death with made up statements. At the same time asking me for proof when plenty is available when you make claims that are obviously false.

Mr.g I would like to get along with you and treat you in a very high regard. It's just that I prefer analytic thought as compared to biased agenda based tit for tat with personal attacks mixed into it. If you think you can do this with me we can start over again but I am just bored.


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AlanTuring
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11 Sep 2011, 2:17 pm

ci wrote:
With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant.

Errr... 8O

I'm gay, have no children, and at 54 I certainly do not expect to have any children.

I have never even mentioned artificial insemination.

I don't have a clue where your ideas come from, but they are wrong.

Edited to add: ci's quote was taken from the post three before this one.


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Last edited by AlanTuring on 11 Sep 2011, 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Sep 2011, 2:46 pm

@ci and gedrene.well i did research last night on the existence of a pride movement.and yes i does exist,but outside of the asan there isnt much to it.a very small unorganized groups.im not anti cure but i found the pride movement completly unthreatening and harmless


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11 Sep 2011, 2:48 pm

ci wrote:
With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant.


...oh for God's sake ci...you DIDN'T actually say THAT did you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WHERE do you get this from?



ci
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11 Sep 2011, 5:46 pm

AlanTuring wrote:
ci wrote:
With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant.

Errr... 8O

I'm gay, have no children, and at 54 I certainly do not expect to have any children.

I have never even mentioned artificial insemination.

I don't have a clue where your ideas come from, but they are wrong.

Edited to add: ci's quote was taken from the post three before this one.


Look at your post toward me when I said I refused to get involved in the quick sand of abortion politics and autism. what of your lines of reasoning had to do with you purported autism genes and sperm banks.


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ci
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11 Sep 2011, 5:47 pm

Zeraeph wrote:
ci wrote:
With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant.


...oh for God's sake ci...you DIDN'T actually say THAT did you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WHERE do you get this from?


His sexuality means nothing as gay couples have children to in other ways. IT's with regards to his pride politics and eugenics.


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ci
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11 Sep 2011, 5:53 pm

AlanTuring wrote:
I don't give a damn about the law - it has no bearing on this discussion.

Words mean things.

If you give common words new meanings, don't be surprised when communication fails.

Your use of language has complicated a rather straightforward issue.

Autism is not merely due to a chemical imbalance of the brain, or something else that might be cured through medication.

Autism is a brain that is structurally different from those of neurotypicals. We have different patterns of interconnection between many neurons, for a start. We really are wired differently.

A cure for autism would have to result in a brain that is structured similarly to, and behaves similarly to, brains of neurotypicals. Such a change, if possible, would not leave our minds (which are only the operation of our brains) intact.

When many people use the word 'cure', they want to avoid people who have autism. There are only six ways in which this might be accomplished, all of which require identification of genetic markers for autism or deeper genetic knowledge:

1. Genetic counselling for would-be parents to discuss whether they should have children at all. [needs genetic markers]

2. Discarding eggs or sperm that carry genes for autism. [need non-destructive genetic analysis, genetic markers]

3. Perform genetic engineering on fertilized eggs to alter the DNA. [far beyond our current capabilities, need to know what to change]

4. Destroy in-vitro embryos that exhibit markers prior to implantation. [needs genetic markers]

5. Identify embryos or fetuses likely to be autistic in utero and abort them [needs genetic or other markers]

6. Perform genetic engineering on post-natal autists. [far beyond our current capabilities, need to know what to change, would destroy current mind]

Those are your choices. This is what you claim to be striving for.

Choices 1, 2, 4, and 5 would result in our never being born.

Choice 3 would result in someone else being born.

Choice 6 would allow us to be born, only to have our minds torn up later.

Only choices 1, 2, 4, and 5 are plausible in the next few decades, and 1 says "don't have kids" while 4 and 5 are abortion.

Some people would be against each of these choices for various reasons.

Boy, a cure sounds wonderful!

I'll go for improved treatments any day.


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ci
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11 Sep 2011, 6:08 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
@ci and gedrene.well i did research last night on the existence of a pride movement.and yes i does exist,but outside of the asan there isnt much to it.a very small unorganized groups.im not anti cure but i found the pride movement completly unthreatening and harmless


You have not been on the other end of their demands, bullying and accusations. Even AlanTurning who claims to be an autism pride advocate redefined cure as eugenics. This is a common political tactics. Cure has nothing to do with eugenics or abortion.


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Zeraeph
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11 Sep 2011, 6:23 pm

ci wrote:
Zeraeph wrote:
ci wrote:
With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant.


...oh for God's sake ci...you DIDN'T actually say THAT did you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WHERE do you get this from?


His sexuality means nothing as gay couples have children to in other ways. IT's with regards to his pride politics and eugenics.


The only thing you are right about is that his sexuality means nothing - that's not the problem, you absolutely cannot go round pulling accusations out of thin air of (for want of a better term) "conspiracy to force impregnation" on ANY man and still expect to be taken seriously on any level...

It was in the falling-off-the-chair-laughing range of ridiculous...



ci
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11 Sep 2011, 6:30 pm

Zeraeph wrote:
ci wrote:
Zeraeph wrote:
ci wrote:
With regards to AlanTurning I will not be involved in his politics to force his genes into the bodies of women that want help getting pregnant.


...oh for God's sake ci...you DIDN'T actually say THAT did you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WHERE do you get this from?


His sexuality means nothing as gay couples have children to in other ways. IT's with regards to his pride politics and eugenics.


The only thing you are right about is that his sexuality means nothing - that's not the problem, you absolutely cannot go round pulling accusations out of thin air of (for want of a better term) "conspiracy to force impregnation" on ANY man and still expect to be taken seriously on any level...

It was in the falling-off-the-chair-laughing range of ridiculous...


I can understand why it would be funny. Yet if you read what he says a womens right to know the genetic potential of autism concerning his or others sperm and or eggs is not acceptable when part of reproductive health facilitation. It was to me a potential emotional appeal concerning autism eugenics and autism pride.

What he posted was an essential core component of the autism pride movements political agenda. My opinion however is it is not so much attached to mainstream political groups most of the time. It is the feelings of rejection but in how those feelings are used like in some protests the anger seems to evade the potential of better approaches that do not look like guilting others while asking for money or to simply win an argument with emotional appeal.

It is pride politics that has accused falsely so often as a means of political tactic and while doing so seems to often evade others picking it apart or else face the I am insulted politics even toward others with autism. It is silly to me as adults people cannot just put their minds out on a screen and allow others to understand. If I have a disagreement that is emotion based I share all the details. But that may also come with a cry me a river or pity accusation in reply in a mode of peer pressure pride politics.


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