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ActingUpAgain
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20 Sep 2011, 12:20 pm

My wife is highly empathic, and has experienced and dealt with many psychic experiences. By psychic experiences, I actually mean a lot of paranormal occurrences. Some examples, seeing ghosts, having out of body experiences, seeing auras, getting sensory reading of places, and so much more.

I, however, have never experienced these sensations. She has noticed that she never has an experience around me, and that anytime I walk into a room where she's having an experience, it dissipates. An example of what I mean - she's helped friends with a spiritual cleansing, and I've had to stay out of the room otherwise it's unsuccessful.

Her comparison - if psychic energy is electricity, then I'm a grounding wire. Since being an Aspie means a difference in empathy from NTs, I have to wonder if this is part of it?

What are your experiences? Do you have any, or are as "psychic-blind" as I am?

(Note: It's also ok to say "I've don't believe in that stuff" if you like, but I'm primarily interested in the thoughts of those that consider that this phenomena exists.)



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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20 Sep 2011, 12:24 pm

I have had psychic experiences.



AtticusKane
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20 Sep 2011, 12:28 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I have had psychic experiences.


Yup same here



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20 Sep 2011, 1:37 pm

Spent the entire decade of my 20s studying Western Occultism. Have experienced many events classified as 'paranormal.'



cosmicvoid
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20 Sep 2011, 2:08 pm

I have also had psychic experiences.



aghogday
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20 Sep 2011, 2:31 pm

ActingUpAgain wrote:
My wife is highly empathic, and has experienced and dealt with many psychic experiences. By psychic experiences, I actually mean a lot of paranormal occurrences. Some examples, seeing ghosts, having out of body experiences, seeing auras, getting sensory reading of places, and so much more.

I, however, have never experienced these sensations. She has noticed that she never has an experience around me, and that anytime I walk into a room where she's having an experience, it dissipates. An example of what I mean - she's helped friends with a spiritual cleansing, and I've had to stay out of the room otherwise it's unsuccessful.

Her comparison - if psychic energy is electricity, then I'm a grounding wire. Since being an Aspie means a difference in empathy from NTs, I have to wonder if this is part of it?

What are your experiences? Do you have any, or are as "psychic-blind" as I am?

(Note: It's also ok to say "I've don't believe in that stuff" if you like, but I'm primarily interested in the thoughts of those that consider that this phenomena exists.)


Interesting. I have a similiar idea about extreme affective empathy and anamalous cognition (how scientists refer to psychic phenomenon). I think those that do not experience extreme affective empathy, are not as receptive of the phenomenon. The affective empathetic response is not fully understood, but research shows it is strong enough in some people where they actually feel the sensation of someone touching them when they observe someone else being touched.

From what I have seen many have reported here that they have experienced the phenomonon. I have witnessed it in my wife as well, who is extremely empathetic, but she has not experienced some of what you describe here.

For a long time, the suggestion was that individuals with ASD's had little affective empathy, but now research suggests that some have extreme affective empathy, so I see a potential connection with that and reports that I have seen here, not only of experiencing psychic phenonomenon, but personification of inanimate objects which research suggests is also part of extreme affective empathy.

In general males have lower levels of affective empathy than females. Testosterone seems to influence it, in fact testosterone levels lower naturally in fathers, so they will experience a greater ability to nuture and feel affective empathy for their children.

There is significant research that suggests that there is a correlation between high levels of prenatal testosterone and developmental issues that may be associated with ASD's. There is a significant number of personal reports here of gender neutrality, so there may be an association there, as well, into adulthood that affects testosterone, affective empathy, and to go a further speculative stretch, potential ability to experience what some consider psychic phenomenon or anamalous cognition.

Affective empathy is also a moving target affected by life experience. Some who experience high levels of it in life, later experience lower levels because of life experience. Stress, some health problems, and psychological abuse are just three of many factors that can lower affective levels of empathy. And, there are many factors that can increase it as well.

Interestingly, a longitudinal study of young adults in the last three decades show an overall decrease in empathy with levels dropping sharply in the last decade.

It is possible, our way of life and culture may be decreasing levels of affective empathy in the general population. If affective empathy is an ingredient of the experience of psychic phenomenon/anamalous cognition, in general, the peak potential of the experience of the phenomenon, may be in the past for many in the general population.

Before the information age, began to accelerate in the 80's, psychic phenomenon was an extremely popular topic of interest in the general public. Perhaps , in general, as humans, as we become adapted to input from electronic devices rather than the natural world, we lose part of what it is to be human and gain part of what it is to be an electronic device. If one is to believe in Neuroplasticity, I don't think one can discount the possibility.



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20 Sep 2011, 2:36 pm

It's too bad that not a single one of you can provide empirical evidence that your experiences actually occurred, as there is a cash prize of One Million Dollars waiting for you, if only you could provide the necessary demonstration.

While absence of material evidence is not evidence of material absence, it is certainly sufficient cause for reasonable doubt.

I therefore have a reasonable doubt that anyone has ever had a paranormal or psychic experience.


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aghogday
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20 Sep 2011, 3:38 pm

Fnord wrote:
It's too bad that not a single one of you can provide empirical evidence that your experiences actually occurred, as there is a cash prize of One Million Dollars waiting for you, if only you could provide the necessary demonstration.

While absence of material evidence is not evidence of material absence, it is certainly sufficient cause for reasonable doubt.

I therefore have a reasonable doubt that anyone has ever had a paranormal or psychic experience.


While the phenomenon eventually may be accepted, widely in the scientific community, that it can be reliably demonstrated through further scientific research, actual material evidence of what the process of it is that causes it, may never be understood, simply because the measurement of that may be beyond human capabilities.

If that is the case, the closest anyone will ever come to understanding the material process that causes it, will be to experience it or to observe it in others. I have what I think is a reasonable doubt that some will ever directly experience the phenomenon.

The Op's description of his experience, I think, provides anecdotal support for this.

In the actual scientific research done on the phenomenon, it has been suggested that some individuals conducting the research have a negative influence on the results and some have a positive influence on the results. I think what the Op describes also provides anecdotal support for that.

I have a feeling science will have a better understanding of the phenomenon in the future. What's a feeling? An hypothesis of the future, based on everything experienced, necessary for human survival.

Perhaps that is where part of the answer lies. The OP's wife may experience more of this feeling than others do, because she experiences a greater perception of reality, than others do. And, as some report, this referenced ability is not always seen, as an advantageous one.



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20 Sep 2011, 4:06 pm

Burn the witch!



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20 Sep 2011, 4:22 pm

aghogday wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It's too bad that not a single one of you can provide empirical evidence that your experiences actually occurred, as there is a cash prize of One Million Dollars waiting for you, if only you could provide the necessary demonstration.

While absence of material evidence is not evidence of material absence, it is certainly sufficient cause for reasonable doubt.

I therefore have a reasonable doubt that anyone has ever had a paranormal or psychic experience.


While the phenomenon eventually may be accepted, widely in the scientific community, that it can be reliably demonstrated through further scientific research, actual material evidence of what the process of it is that causes it, may never be understood, simply because the measurement of that may be beyond human capabilities.

If that is the case, the closest anyone will ever come to understanding the material process that causes it, will be to experience it or to observe it in others. I have what I think is a reasonable doubt that some will ever directly experience the phenomenon.

The Op's description of his experience, I think, provides anecdotal support for this.

In the actual scientific research done on the phenomenon, it has been suggested that some individuals conducting the research have a negative influence on the results and some have a positive influence on the results. I think what the Op describes also provides anecdotal support for that.

I have a feeling science will have a better understanding of the phenomenon in the future. What's a feeling? An hypothesis of the future, based on everything experienced, necessary for human survival.

Perhaps that is where part of the answer lies. The OP's wife may experience more of this feeling than others do, because she experiences a greater perception of reality, than others do. And, as some report, this referenced ability is not always seen, as an advantageous one.


Without having the currage to tell anything from own experiences, I appreciate your open mind.

Maybe oversensitivity plays a logical and in 100 years explainable role in this, and that is what I believe.



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20 Sep 2011, 5:00 pm

Maje wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It's too bad that not a single one of you can provide empirical evidence that your experiences actually occurred, as there is a cash prize of One Million Dollars waiting for you, if only you could provide the necessary demonstration.

While absence of material evidence is not evidence of material absence, it is certainly sufficient cause for reasonable doubt.

I therefore have a reasonable doubt that anyone has ever had a paranormal or psychic experience.


While the phenomenon eventually may be accepted, widely in the scientific community, that it can be reliably demonstrated through further scientific research, actual material evidence of what the process of it is that causes it, may never be understood, simply because the measurement of that may be beyond human capabilities.

If that is the case, the closest anyone will ever come to understanding the material process that causes it, will be to experience it or to observe it in others. I have what I think is a reasonable doubt that some will ever directly experience the phenomenon.

The Op's description of his experience, I think, provides anecdotal support for this.

In the actual scientific research done on the phenomenon, it has been suggested that some individuals conducting the research have a negative influence on the results and some have a positive influence on the results. I think what the Op describes also provides anecdotal support for that.

I have a feeling science will have a better understanding of the phenomenon in the future. What's a feeling? An hypothesis of the future, based on everything experienced, necessary for human survival.

Perhaps that is where part of the answer lies. The OP's wife may experience more of this feeling than others do, because she experiences a greater perception of reality, than others do. And, as some report, this referenced ability is not always seen, as an advantageous one.


Without having the currage to tell anything from own experiences, I appreciate your open mind.

Maybe oversensitivity plays a logical and in 100 years explainable role in this, and that is what I believe.


Autism in itself is evidence that some people experience the world much differently than others do. Not all have hyper-sensitive sensory issues, but some do. It might be interesting to do a survey here to compare those with hyper-sensitive sensory issues that report experiences of psychic type phenomenon as opposed to those that don't report the experience of psychic type phenomenon. It wouldn't prove cause and effect, but it might show an anecdotal correlation, if there is one, here, to be found among those individuals.



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20 Sep 2011, 7:28 pm

Anecdotal correlations are not empirically evidential. However, I'm open-minded enough that a good, solid demonstration of psychic ability or paranormal phenomena would convince me. So I'm reminding everyone who reads this of my "What's In The Box?" challenge.

Simply put, I have selected three ordinary material objects, a container to put them in, and a location to place the container at. Using any psychic ability or paranormal talent, tell me where the container is, what the container looks like, and what the objects are inside the container.

You may use telepathy to read my mind, precognition to predict what the information will be when I check to see that everything is the way I left it, or a spirit guide to tell you what it knows, et cetera. You may also use tarot cards, crystal balls, Ouija boards, or whatever other paranormal focus you need to perform the task.

The only limiting conditions I have are:

1) The descriptions must be exact. For example, if your description states that "The container is red", and the container turns out to be an origami box folded from a newspaper page, you can not claim that you actually meant that "The container is read".

2) I will not give hints, nor will I tell anyone how close they are or whether they are "Hot", "Warm" or "Cold". This isn't a guessing game. You tell me what you know, and I will tell you when you are correct on all counts of objects, container, and location - partial answers will not be acknowledged.

3) You must respond via Private Message (PM). I will not acknowledge public posts, as eventually someone might determine the correct answers by process of elimination ... after several hundred or so incorrect posts, of course, but I'm trying to eliminate rote guesswork.

So far, no one has correctly identified the location, the container, or the objects. Even when I've physically brought the challengers into the same room, they have not been able to determine the correct container; and when I have placed the container into the challengers' hands, they have not been able to identify the contents. Note that I have been in the same room with the challengers, and have even made physical contact with them, and yet they have not been able to make a correct determinations, leaving me to further doubt their claims of psychic or paranormal ability.

Of course, if people are more interested in being believed than in actually providing an evidential demonstration, then they should not bother with the Challenge. For those people, making baseless claims and composing verbose "Word Salads" is the sum total of their "evidence", and I'm not interested in being caught up in any more convoluted speculations on the philosophical meaning of Reality. Nor am I interested in challenges to my sanity, intellect, integrity, or any other personal attribute - Ad Hominem fallacies are irrelevant to the Challenge. Excuses are also irrelevant, so don't bother posting them, either.

Finally, in the past, I've offered a cash incentive for this challenge. The economy being what it is, I've had to withdraw this incentive. In light of past performances, however, maybe I should re-institute the incentive ... what do you all think?

Enjoy! :D


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AtticusKane
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20 Sep 2011, 7:59 pm

Empirical evidence? We don't need no stinkin evidence! Psychic phenomena has been misconstrued to mean "predicting the future", but it isn't. Look at twins. Often when, miles apart, one is in danger or turmoil, the other can just "feel" it. Just an example, but.... subjective experience is the only evidence possible for this.

Do you have empirical evidence that you're not a figment of my imagination?



aghogday
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20 Sep 2011, 8:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
Anecdotal correlations are not empirically evidential. However, I'm open-minded enough that a good, solid demonstration of psychic ability or paranormal phenomena would convince me. So I'm reminding everyone who reads this of my"What's In The Box?" challenge.

Simply put, I have selected three ordinary material objects, a container to put them in, and a location to place the container at. Using any psychic ability or paranormal talent, tell me where the container is, what the container looks like, and what the objects are inside the container.

You may use telepathy to read my mind, precognition to predict what the information will be when I check to see that everything is the way I left it, or a spirit guide to tell you what it knows, et cetera. You may also use tarot cards, crystal balls, Ouija boards, or whatever other paranormal focus you need to perform the task.

The only limitations I have are:

1) The descriptions must be exact. For example, if your description states that "The container is red", and the container turns out to be an origami box folded from a newspaper page, you can not claim that you actually meant that "The container is read".

2) I will not give hints, nor will I tell anyone how close they are or whether they are "Hot", "Warm" or "Cold". This isn't a guessing game. You tell me what you know, and I will tell you when you are correct on all counts of objects, container, and location - partial answers will not be acknowledged.

3) You must respond via Private Message (PM). I will not acknowledge public posts, as eventually someone might determine the correct answers by process of elimination ... after several hundred or so incorrect posts, of course, but I'm trying to eliminate rote guesswork.

So far, no one has correctly identified the location, the container, or the objects. Even when I've physically brought the challengers into the same room, they have not been able to determine the correct container; and when I have placed the container into the challengers' hands, they have not been able to identify the contents. Note that I have been in the same room with the challengers, and have even made physical contact with them, and yet they have not been able to make a correct determination.

In the past, I've offered a cash incentive for this challenge. The economy being what it is, I've had to withdraw this incentive. In light of past performances, however, maybe I should re-institute the incentive ... what do you all think?


If the researchers are correct, and the individual presenting a test of anamalous cognition, makes a difference in the results, it could be part of problem for never getting a positive result. I've never been able to predict stuff like this, but the first thing that came to mind was fork. Could be because it is time to eat. :)

Looking at anamalous cognition, as a trait that may remain in the population for survival value, the ability to guess what's in a box, doesn't meet that standard, in my opinion.

The location, the box, and the objects have no significance except for what one assigns to them. I think if one were to look at the phenomenon from a scientific perspective, one would want to study what the phenomenon is, rather than what one thinks it should be.

This is where Bem's research into anamalous cognition differs from other research, he provided a stimulus that affects the brain, that has not been provided in similiar research. If it exists it's likely a real phenomenon, and if it is part of the human experience, it may have survival value.



AtticusKane
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20 Sep 2011, 8:04 pm

As for the "what's in this container I have?" scenario, that isn't covered by psychic phenomena. It's entanglement. It's between two people, quantumly entangled. And it's more emotional feeling, as opposed to the myth of "I'm getting a vision.... I see.... A red box with writing on the side.... In a forest." That kind of thing is obvious bulls**t.



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20 Sep 2011, 8:40 pm

I have had psychic experiences Aspies are more aware of whats around them then some NTs its called a third eye. I can smell, hear and feel something around me thats not the norm if you know what I mean some of the crew Im with who have aspergers as well can hear, see, smell and feel something our ears, eyes, noses are more atuned to things than normal type person. I go ghosthunting quiet abit and enjoy the fact of learning about the people and the places I goto its the adrenain I like.