Herman Cain: Another Country Club Conservative Elitist

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I've never called you a troll Marshall, if anything I've warned you that the overt emotional responses in your posts would likely draw trolls to you. I've also not tried to position my self as anything other than a member here who tries to make it a better place, though I will admit to having acted as a sort of spokesman for this forum when newbies or past mods have made noises about cracking down on the place. Like I said before, I'm not perfect and never claimed I was, and though I do try to let most mud flung at me just go, I will respond if provoked enough. Look through our previous interactions; I didn't set the tone of things, that was you, likely acting in anger. A good chunk of what I've been trying to get across to you is that you take things in ways far removed from how they are intended, you see malice where none is present and react disproportionately to what was actually said.

And once again Panda shares with us a video of him and his army buddies.....

Sorry we took away ur black peeple and made them free

How's your headache? I'm sorry, but my second language is English. My first language is American English.

The quote "No one is even 2 to the 300 millionth times smarter than a squirrel," is from the same interview that Google returned to the quote you cited.

Reading the entire interview, I see how the non-Liberals might try blaming the squirrels for their squirrelish techniques of non-logic ultimately failing in disaster, if absolute ignorance fails as an excuse (remember the "Know-Nothings" campaigning against immigrants from Ireland in the 1840's).

I cited Cain for saying "blame yourself", while he was denying any of his own blame, but still demanding kudos for giving it to himself with rewards.

My quotes from Swift involved an earlier 18th century "laissez-faire" induced famine in Ireland before the "Irish Famine" of 1740-1741, and the "Great Famine" of 1845-1852. (for the laissez-faire famine (in maybe simple enough language) in the Teacher's "Background, near bottom of the page):
http://www.aacps.org/aacps/boe/INSTR/CU ... /index.htm )

The non-Liberal's preaching, and demanding absolute practice of, current 2010 "neo-conservative" laissez-faire is crossing the threshold into another additional disaster on top of the Industrial Revolution's inevitable sputtering to an end.

Tadzio

I don’t care what I real troll would do. If you’re truly concerned about me as you say you are you will stop it. Otherwise I’ll turn that around and ask YOU what YOUR goal is here. Taunting is not "keeping things light". It’s provoking. It’s not something you say to someone face-to-face unless your goal is to have your nose broken (don’t take this as a threat, I’m just pointing out reality). I’d like to give you a way out but you only seem to only be interested in being a dick and escalating things.

I’ll also say that I have a right to find certain un-humanitarian political views offensive. I can express contempt for a certain view without you taking it personally. If you have a problem with that, tough. See, it goes both ways.


You can’t address me like a troll, e.g. “U mad?”, and expect me to “not to take it personally”. If you refuse to talk to me like you would in a face-to-face encounter, don’t expect civility or reconciliation from me.

I also love the asinine insinuation that I get angry because I’m “losing” the debate. Do you truly believe people like ruveyn “win” debates by pissing people off with offensive crap? I’m sure someone like AG can back you up on that one.


Notice I said “libertarian leaning” not libertarian. I’m talking about the surge of secular conservatism since Obama took office. These people seem distinguished more for what they are against more than what they are for. They put a lot of stock into a very restrictive interpretation of the US constitution, believe in conspiracy theories, and in general come across as unreasonably paranoid of government. Then again, these people probably don’t read Reason Magazine. They’re more reminiscent of the beliefs of the 1960s John Birch Society. I was just saying these people outnumber the true libertarians like yourself.


Again. It’s not the criticism. It’s you repeatedly singling out people on one particular side of the political spectrum for their discourse and acting like a pretentious control freak. You don’t participate in a lot of debate. You just go around playing “gotcha” against certain personally “chosen” people.

I’ve also apologized for getting overly angry, but you still want to bring it up over and over and over again. It’s pointless. I can work on toning down my discourse but you’re not going to change me into not finding certain views offensive and un-humanitarian. Certain things will always anger me. I can choose to keep my anger to myself, but you cannot control how I feel about an issue. Do you get that or not? If not, then don’t criticize me for not empathizing enough with the “other side”.


If you don’t want to troll me then you can drop the attitude completely. Saying “u mad?” and calling me “sport” is trolling. If you really want to know what’s angering me now, it’s your ridiculous claims to have me all figured out when you’re actually clueless. The whole “psychoanalysis” game is actually a rather common trolling tactic on the internet. If you don’t want me to call you a troll, and really want to have an honest dialog with me, stop playing the “gotcha” game. If you want to know how I feel, ask, don’t tell me.


No, saying “u mad?” and “sport”, and making lame psychoanalysis attempts is being an ass. I’d prefer you pm a mod rather than act like you’re a mod. A real mod doesn’t get personally involved with “pwning” members and carrying out grudges like you have with M_P. As far as I can tell you two are equally culpable in continuously acting like dicks toward each other, yet you try to claim the moral high ground.


So you admit that you’re bewildered? I thought you had me all figured out? If you were actually concerned about my health you wouldn’t approach me the way you do as you are making things much worse.


I’m the same way believe it or not. However, it isn’t too much sympathy but anxiety that hurts me. I suck up emotional undertones in everything, but contrary to avoiding them they paradoxically seem to draw me in. It gets to the point that I can’t think about anything else.

I look at what’s going on in this country and I see all kinds of anger and finger pointing and blaming and scapegoating. I see it on both sides of the political spectrum. I wish people would come together and find ways to help each other out in such difficult times, but instead I see people being stubborn and selfish, blaming illegal immigrants, blaming government and politicians, blaming corporate CEO’s. Nobody cares about figuring out ways to help people who are suffering. It both angers me and quite frankly scares me.

And the anxiety I have. It’s the fear of a cruel and capricious world that just kicks people to the curb and tells them they’re completely on their own. I’m sorry, but I don’t want to live in such a brutal society. You want to call this fear that drives me to rage an emotional defect fine. It probably is. You want to say it’s an “inferiority complex” then I’ll tell you flat out that term is psycho-jargon that’s been turned into a common internet put-down. Do I have some insecurity/abandonment fears, yes, but I don’t truly believe I’m inferior. If you had true empathy and concern as you claim you do, you would not use that term against me. I’m being completely honest here but it’s up to you whether you choose to believe me or not.

I was going to continue point-by-point in response to your post but I don’t have the time, energy, or will right now.

I'm not an idiot so stop talking to me like I am. I'm familiar with ordinary trolls and can deal with them. If someone is solely interested in trolling then I don't give them the time of day. What I don't understand is your approach of harassing me when I ask you to leave me alone, then trying to insult me after I basically tell you to f**k off. And then you claim you are only harassing me because you are concerned. WTF is that?! If I tell you you come off as cocky and that it would be better if you left me alone, it's not intended primarily as an insult. That's my genuine perception of you. You think I would say you are cocky just to insult you? I'm telling you that you annoy me and I'm asking you to knock it off. That isn't an invitation for you to try and insult me. I'm telling you to go away.


If you seem to think I react disproportionately, well that's because you can't empathize with me. If you could it wouldn't seem disproportionate. But that argument is completely pointless. To me conservative morals seem rather backwards and heartless. There's nothing you can do to make me feel differently because I am not you. I'm sure there are some opinions that would stir your ire to the point where you would react angrily. I bet there are some opinions where I couldn't do anything to convince you that you shouldn't feel angry. We are different people and thus react to different things.

But in any case, within this thread my malice has primarily been stirred up by YOU and YOU alone. You are the one that just can't drop things that are in the past. I'd also like to note that I will contact a moderator if you refuse to stop personally harassing me. I didn't want it to come to that but you are a stubborn one. If you want to have me banned in the process so be it. I really don't have any reason to post in PPR anymore as this place is now a cesspool. I'd prefer to be locked out of this sub-forum completely. I do still enjoy the support forums though.

That ruveyn wins debates by pissing people off? No, that's not my position. Frankly, sometimes a person's inability to think can be so obnoxious that it drives the opposition to utter frustration because of how complete that opposition has been defeated. Imagine a person who is defending a clearly logically indefensible position, and is utterly self-assured and arrogant in doing so. There is a temptation to engage, and every engagement will be met with disappointment and frustration. This can potentially lead to rage.

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In any case, I've been trying to avoid this little personal spat, but I see it impacts other posters on here, and I also see I am mentioned.

I've looked over the engagement a bit. I have to say that I believe Dox is being an ass here more than anything else. M_P was not trying to cross anybody in this thread, and nothing he had done to this point had even been that bizarre or unacceptable for the forum.(A fact I mentioned) Dox initiated another round of this interpersonal spat he has with M_P. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4060520.html#4060520 Both I and Marshall questioned this behavior: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4062684.html#4062684 , http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4063177.html#4063177 , http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4063612.html#4063612 .(Marshall was accusatory, but Dox's justification was questionable) Most of Dox's behavior in justifying this behavior has been relatively questionable. http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4063031.html#4063031 (Please note: There is no sign Dox hit close to home at all. M_P, like anybody, is just pissed off at Dox being an ass.)

To go even further though, even though Marshall was accusatory, Dox's behavior has been very deeply questionable: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4064601.html#4064601 The entire post there is unnecessarily insulting.... and well.... it speaks for itself. Whatever reputation Dox may have or think he has, that post was personal, and the continuation of it has strongly indicated an instance where a personal fight was picked and where rather insulting actions were taken/initiated by Dox. Most of the behavior across all of the other posts has persisted in Dox kind of being an ass, and Marshall being accusatory and essentially expressing himself in a manner seeming a bit morally outraged at Dox's behavior.

Regardless of the past behaviors of any other poster involved here, I do believe Dox is causing and increasing the severity of whatever conflict is going on here. I am not saying Marshall is necessarily acting on his best behavior or not, I'd rather not split hairs on this. I just do not think that Dox is behaving well in this thread, as there seems to be a lot of interpersonal spats going on here, and he seems to be the root cause. If a further analysis is needed, I may be more willing to engage in this. However, my opinion cannot be dismissed as "ideologically driven" as I have more in common with Dox's ideology than the other people involved. It cannot be dismissed as "emotionally driven" as I really don't give a s**t and would rather not have this issue exist in the first place. It isn't a matter of personal opinion, as I don't think negatively of M_P, Marshall, or Dox, and have had conversations that were reasonable enough with all individuals in the past. I simply just think that Dox is behaving poorly. We can go about on the sociology of what determines a troll and psychoanalyzing Dox, but I don't see the point. A basic psychological model is not needed in this case, and bizarre psychological models are possible, so while Dox is definitely not a "typical troll", that has no bearing on what his behavior is in the current context.

My advice: everybody in this personal spat just shut up. If there is some desire to make this official just state: "I am done with this personal spat" and NO OTHER COMMENTS related to this.

I have no interest in playing with this game. If we want to play the "I just have to submit a PM to get rid of you game" on the issue, I have my perfect PM right here with this message: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp4064601.html#4064601 This was a clear, and entirely gratuitous violation of the rules presented here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73837.html Marshall I can see as just being angry, but claiming that Marshall is acting out of jealousy and an inferiority complex presented in manner here does violate the rules and it pricks one of my pet peeves to boot. Drop it. Your reputation, Dox, whatever it may be, isn't enough to allow you to pull any wool over my eyes.

I don't do debate. Debate is a competitive sport for mouth breathing college kids. Not my style. I state my opinions, some times I reference facts and I have no intention of changing anyone's mind.

ruveyn

While reserving my right to post in any thread at any time and admitting no wrongdoing, I see that nothing constructive will come of continuing this back and forth. I do believe my keyboard just screamed for mercy, and I'm not a cruel man.