Rated double-risk on life insurance - is this fair?

Post Reply New Topic

Greetings,

In the recent past, I was rated as double-risk by a life insurance provider - and apparently that stays on my record so that wherever else that I apply will see that in my history. I'm in my 30s, married with a house and daughter, good career, and in excellent physical health...but the fact that I declared Aspergers on my life insurance app, plus the fact that I was suffering from burn-out in 2009 (from doing a part-time MBA from Aug 2008 to May 2011) and that I suffered anxiety involving medication and counseling for a harassment/bullying situation at work (from April 2010 to May 2011), they rated me 200% risk b/c of my mental state, and the rationale stated that anxiety is a comorbid symptom of Aspergers, as evidenced by my history. That's total B.S. because the reasons for my suffering & anxiety were nothing to do with Aspergers, they were due to temporary circumstances that no longer exist, and I am off the anxiety medication. I filed a complaint with the human rights commission in my jurisdiction, but the insurance provider's lawyers came back with a clause stating that they are allowed to "discriminate" based on disability if there is sufficient material grounds to believe that the mental condition puts the applicant at a higher risk of behaviours that could result in death.

They mentioned one of the reasons as "suicidal behaviours", of which I've never engaged in, and besides as most people know, committing suicide voids a L.I. policy. I think they are just using convenient pretexts to line their pockets, the slimy bastards.

I was honest with them in disclosing everything, but I sure as heck didn't get the same in return. So, I refused to sign the policy, I'm looking at other options.

The only thing I can think of, somewhat jokingly, is someone might get fed up with my Asperger manifestations and off me. But hey, that could happen with anyone...there are some NT people who come off as very annoying to both NTs and Aspies.

Wonder if anyone here could share their experiences in applying for life insurance, and did they get similar results, maybe if we're lucky we could get a petition going with enough e-signatures to end this taking advantage of Aspies.

The fact that people with Asperger Syndrome and/or depression have an increased chance of suicide should in fact convince them to give you a small DISCOUNT, because they profit if you commit a suicide.

It sounds to me like the lawyers are incompetent if they were using that as an official argument. And they either gave you reasonable arguments and you missed them (though I can't think of valid arguments they might have used), or they are really illogical. What did the human rights commission say about this? Do they have a right to discriminate against your disorder, if the disorder is NOT significantly relevant to life insurance? Or maybe they meant that you might succumb to suicidal behaviour, which would result in your death, and not being identified as a suicide; or loss of will for life, which would result in increased chance of death, different from suicide.

It's important to make sure that they don't have reasonable arguments. You wouldn't want to blame them for discrimination if they are simply doing their job, do you?

I doubt this is taking advantage. Generally speaking insurance companies know risk, it is their entire lifeblood assessing and managing it and they base their ratings on statistics rather than opinions. E.g. to become an Actuary (insurance guru) is extremely hard and notoriously difficult, and you need to be a very very smart person talented at maths to do it.
Individually you may feel they are wrong about you, and they may well be, but statistically their risk assessment will generally be right about you based on the information they have.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that, hypothetically, if people with Asperger Syndrome tend to suicide more often, you don't have increased risk for that, but you still have Asperger Syndrome, you can't really prove that you don't have increased risk for committing a suicide. Same rule applies for all other risks that apply for a group you're in, but not specifically for you.

What nostromo and Rational said (thanks, guys!). I work in the insurance industry and yes, it's all about reasonable risk assessment. You can't get your individual situation assessed, they have to lump you in with "people like you". Don't like it? Don't buy life insurance.

We're probably not too far away from life insurance companies wanting a genetic workup before they'll write you...

My sister works in the insurance business. Having EITHER anxety or depression, is enough to get the 200% increase hike.

ASD is classified as a mental health disorder at her company,because it is in the DSM.

You have no choice to be honest. Nondisclosure of preexisting condition can mean your loved ones would have to pay the money back. If you weren't officially diagnosis, you don't have say boo about ASD. Only if it is in a medical record somewhere.

Well get this. They said on the 200% risk rating that I'd need to provide them with a history of my psychiatric counselling records from the early 2000s to 2010, that's ridiculous, they know damn well that people are going to have a big time hassle digging up bits and pieces of their consultations which will only reveal concerns like how to read between the lines with people, bullying, discrimination, relationships, etc...which is personal stuff besides...and I am cynical that such disclosure is likely to result in a cut-down in premiums, maybe 150% if I'm VERY lucky - I really see it as window-dressing on their part just to say that they did their due diligence and gave you a "fair" chance.

My sister works in the insurance business. Having EITHER anxety or depression, is enough to get the 200% increase hike.

ASD is classified as a mental health disorder at her company,because it is in the DSM.

You have no choice to be honest. Nondisclosure of preexisting condition can mean your loved ones would have to pay the money back. If you weren't officially diagnosis, you don't have say boo about ASD. Only if it is in a medical record somewhere.

I'm rated up because I have epilepsy, even though it's been well controlled for almost 14 years. I didn't put the AS on my application because I wasn't officially diagnosed yet (I was diagnosed after the application process). It's stupid because the chances of me dying from a seizure-related problem are very low (I'm otherwise very healthy, no high blood pressure, diabetes, or other common middle-age problems), given that the seizures are controlled, but that's the insurance industry for ya...

~Kate

What about other factors related to your epilepsy? Just as an example, possibly someone with Epilepsy might be more likely to have other co-morbid conditions perhaps un-DX that are more prevalent than the general population. Or anxiety or depression issues related to having epilepsy?

Simply put - without corelating anything else specifically it might be demonstrable that as a group people with Epilepsy have shorter life spans - for whatever reason.
Maybe in your specific case thats not true, but again, as I intimated above - as a member of a group (lets call it "people with epilepsy") - there will be factors like that, that insurance companies take into account.

OTOH they may also use Epilepsy it as an excuse to rort you for more money because, but that would be the sales dept not the propeller heads
So shop around!

Hmm well I guess no life insurance for me.......life insurance because even when your dead your still in debt. lol

Ouch! This just feeds my paranoia regarding permanent records. I would love to be perfectly open and honest with the professionals in my life, but don't feel I can be if I never know when an offhand remark, odd test result or fleeting experience will be entered into the record to haunt me forever. So I guess I'll just continue the tight lipped need-to-know policy that is so unfriendly and unsatisfying.

I had some weird persistant irregular heartbeat and went to My Dr.
While discussing it with her I mentioned that once about 8yrs back I had it happen briefly then too. I got referred to a specialist and got ECGs and things done (it was OK just Dysrhytmia). I put the claim into insurance, almost immediately a letter came back referring to my previous 'record of irregular hearbeats', which they had got from my Drs notes, stating I took out insurance after that first 'event' and that I was therefore not covered for the costs of my 'prior condition' and put a note on my record about it excluding me from cover from any previous treatments.
I'm a chilled out person normally, but I felt urges to go into their office and burn it down!!
Now I know better, never mention anything that happened before if it might give the insurance an out, or make sure the Dr understands those comments are off the record! Also don't change insurance companies for medical unless you need to.

Well, the fact of the matter is, ANY condition that you have could cause anxiety and depression as co-morbid symptoms, simply because you have to deal with the realization that you're not like the rest of society, and the treatment you get as a result. I mean, if you think about it, burn victims, the vastly obese, people with chronic halitosis, people with varying degrees of MS or dystrophy who walk with a severe limp...all these people are more prone to depression and anxiety due to coping with what they have.

So, should insurance companies rate THEM higher too???

And for that matter, should black and gay people be rated higher risk, just b/c of silly generalizations rigidly adhered to by the actuarial folks at insurance companies???

You tell me...

Yep.
The insurance companies job is to make money by taking calculated risks with other peoples money (shareholders, investors etc), they are not charities or social services agencies, thats the job of governments.

He's right you know. They aren't charity's. Don't be fooled by what the advertising tells you, they do not care about you or your family.

All they want is your money.


Don't let them scare you.
and no you don't have to be honest on your form.
For you undiagnosed if you're getting health insurance, LIE.