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Dantac
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08 Oct 2011, 1:35 pm

Just because it hasn't been done in 50 or 100 years doesn't mean it can't be done. You may just need the right tech to come along or a stroke of luck/inspiration...or both. There's plenty of examples in history of scientists that stumble onto something, research it, become outcasts in the scientific community of the day and later they are proven right & they change the world.

I'll point you to the Israeli chemist that won the nobel prize this year for his quasicrystal research. He was ridiculed by the same academia system that you say needs to 'prove' things... and in the end he was proven right. His discovery was almost accidental to boot. :)

The thing with the Rossi LENR (E-cat or whatever) is that he would reveal the entire process once he is given a patent. If its bogus then that's that and the patent becomes worthless. However... if it does work that patent makes the guy sole financial beneficiary of the thing and that you can be sure has the established energy infrastructure elites sh*****g bricks. Blocking this patent by whatever means is no different than what large corporations do when they muscle individuals using the law: delay the process for so long the individual gives up, settles on terms beneficial to the large corp or just how insurance co's do it, delay+deny until the problem dies.



ruveyn
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08 Oct 2011, 2:48 pm

Dantac wrote:
Just because it hasn't been done in 50 or 100 years doesn't mean it can't be done. You may just need the right tech to come along or a stroke of luck/inspiration...or both. There's plenty of examples in history of scientists that stumble onto something, research it, become outcasts in the scientific community of the day and later they are proven right & they change the world.

I'll point you to the Israeli chemist that won the nobel prize this year for his quasicrystal research. He was ridiculed by the same academia system that you say needs to 'prove' things... and in the end he was proven right. His discovery was almost accidental to boot. :)

The thing with the Rossi LENR (E-cat or whatever) is that he would reveal the entire process once he is given a patent. If its bogus then that's that and the patent becomes worthless. However... if it does work that patent makes the guy sole financial beneficiary of the thing and that you can be sure has the established energy infrastructure elites sh*****g bricks. Blocking this patent by whatever means is no different than what large corporations do when they muscle individuals using the law: delay the process for so long the individual gives up, settles on terms beneficial to the large corp or just how insurance co's do it, delay+deny until the problem dies.


Obviously fusion is possible. That is how the Sun shines. The open question is can we develop technology for controlled fusion. So far there is no controlled fusion technology that can produce more power than it takes to generate the reaction. Fusion is the energy of the future and it will continue to be just that until a technology is developed.

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08 Oct 2011, 9:37 pm

Dantac wrote:
Just because it hasn't been done in 50 or 100 years doesn't mean it can't be done. You may just need the right tech to come along or a stroke of luck/inspiration...or both. There's plenty of examples in history of scientists that stumble onto something, research it, become outcasts in the scientific community of the day and later they are proven right & they change the world.

I'll point you to the Israeli chemist that won the nobel prize this year for his quasicrystal research. He was ridiculed by the same academia system that you say needs to 'prove' things... and in the end he was proven right. His discovery was almost accidental to boot. :)

The thing with the Rossi LENR (E-cat or whatever) is that he would reveal the entire process once he is given a patent. If its bogus then that's that and the patent becomes worthless. However... if it does work that patent makes the guy sole financial beneficiary of the thing and that you can be sure has the established energy infrastructure elites sh*****g bricks. Blocking this patent by whatever means is no different than what large corporations do when they muscle individuals using the law: delay the process for so long the individual gives up, settles on terms beneficial to the large corp or just how insurance co's do it, delay+deny until the problem dies.

That is true, but it's really not that common. Not to mention the fact that Cold Fusion is inherently implausible. And although I am pretty cynical when it comes to the level which big corporations will stoop to, I strongly suspect that they would be trying to outbid each other for control of this technology, not trying to block it's patent. I hope I will be proven wrong. I doubt I will.



DeaconBlues
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08 Oct 2011, 10:30 pm

It's kind of like the mythical hundred-MPG-carburetor that way - if such a thing existed, various car companies would be fighting to be the first to bring it to market, not trying to bury it! Imagine the sales of a Ford that lets you fuel your car the way you always have, and drive it the way you always have, but gets 100 MPG at the same time...

Similarly, if either cold fusion or any other version worked, you'd see Con Ed, PG&E, the Bonneville Power Administration, and half a dozen other companies in the US alone willing to assassinate each other's agents in order to be the first company to bring this technology to market. The financial potential of such an invention is hard to overestimate.

Meanwhile, in the harsh world of consensual reality, here we have the story of a man who has built a fusion reactor in his garage. Of course, it's not considered remarkable either scientifically or politically, because its output is completely unimpressive, and it still takes more power to run the device than it produces...


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ruveyn
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09 Oct 2011, 1:07 pm

Dantac wrote:
Just because it hasn't been done in 50 or 100 years doesn't mean it can't be done. You may just need the right tech to come along or a stroke of luck/inspiration...or both. There's plenty of examples in history of scientists that stumble onto something, research it, become outcasts in the scientific community of the day and later they are proven right & they change the world.



It is a question of technology, not impossibility.

Lord Kelvin, a leading British physicist in the last 19-th century doubted the feasibility of heavier than air flight. Not because it was impossible, mind you. After all birds fly and are heavier than air. The question was technology. When Kelvin said heavier than air flight would not happen there were no lightweight internal combustion engines anywhere and steam engines were just to heavy to get the necessary power to weight ratio necessary for flight. Kelvin said publicly in 1895 there would be no heavier than air powered flight (gliders already existed in his day). Eight years later at Kitty Hawk he was proved wrong. The Freres Wright made two great contributions to powered heavier than air flight:

1. They figured out how to do three axis control
2. They invented an internal combustion engine that was light weight but powerful enough to provide the lift.

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09 Oct 2011, 6:42 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Dantac wrote:
Just because it hasn't been done in 50 or 100 years doesn't mean it can't be done. You may just need the right tech to come along or a stroke of luck/inspiration...or both. There's plenty of examples in history of scientists that stumble onto something, research it, become outcasts in the scientific community of the day and later they are proven right & they change the world.


It is a question of technology, not impossibility.
ruveyn

Quite right, with respect to hot fusion. But there is no reason to think that Cold Fusion is possible.



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09 Oct 2011, 6:50 pm

i thought that cold fusion could be done using cavitation?
not in any meaningfull way but enough to show that there was neutron radiation.
i might be wrong, has anyone heard of this?
(here cold fusion is defined as fusion where no external heating is required, the process itself develops a bit of heat)

//edit// (a quick wiki search turned up failed attempts at replication) //edit//


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ruveyn
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09 Oct 2011, 7:58 pm

Oodain wrote:
i thought that cold fusion could be done using cavitation?
not in any meaningfull way but enough to show that there was neutron radiation.
i might be wrong, has anyone heard of this?
(here cold fusion is defined as fusion where no external heating is required, the process itself develops a bit of heat)

//edit// (a quick wiki search turned up failed attempts at replication) //edit//


No claim of cold fusion has ever been confirmed. The only fusion we know that works for sure is very hot fusion.

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11 Oct 2011, 5:18 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
What are the advantages and drawbacks of fusion energy, and about when would it be widely available?


Advantages: fusion processes are much cleaner than fission or burning hydro-carbons.
Disadvantages: It is very hard to get a plasma hot enough to fuse without destroying the vessel containing it.

When will controlled nuclear fusion happen here on earth? Don't hold your breath.

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Dantac
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12 Oct 2011, 10:10 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
And although I am pretty cynical when it comes to the level which big corporations will stoop to, I strongly suspect that they would be trying to outbid each other for control of this technology, not trying to block it's patent. I hope I will be proven wrong. I doubt I will.


Think of it this way: Its energy. If this device works as advertised it replaces coal, oil, nuclear and all other forms of green energy (wind,solar,etc).

Oil alone is a perfect example. There is a planet-wide, absolutely massive infrastructure costing many trillions of dollars (ships, rigs,fields, pipelines,etc) set up for it. It is owned by very few people which wield incredible clout all over the world. Out of the blue comes a device like this that makes all that...and their entire fortunes invested on it all... obsolete. Worthless. Overnight.

This device appears to be quite easy and cheap to manufacture and even worse (for these people), it is small and compact enough to be sold to individuals. That removes any and all forms of 'dependency' on energy distribution systems (gas pumps,electric grids, etc). So not only is the 'end product' of oil and its infrastructure become obsolete, it also destroys their monopoly over vital energy distribution networks.

So its not about bidding for a patent... whoever owns it is irrelevant once its out on the market. Those who currently own the infrastructure and the distribution networks (which are the same group actually) lose everything.

Its a paradigm shift that has never been experienced at such scale before.