intentional behaviour rewarded; clueless behaviour punished
If there's one thing I noticed during my 20s it's the ubiquitous "jerk-babe" pair-ups, they constantly fall for each other. That's because those guys act like they have options, so they appear more appealing. I didn't figure this out till my late 20s after lots of rebuking and failed dating, I would be constantly apologizing for my clueless oversights and faux-pas, which I soon realized were only under my partial control, I would always be plagued with them more than an NT.
What followed from that stage of my life was a trail of rejections, basically under the premise that these women didn't want to change me, they thought I was "sweet" (that's an NT code word for "naive"), and we're better off as friends. These breakups were the culmination of being criticized for being too rude, blunt, spacing out and not noticing certain cues, etc, etc...so I took a "lesson" from this and in my later relationships, before I got married (I'm 37 today), if I ever got criticized on some faux-pas that I made then I would retort with things like "geez, would you quit being so dramatic? if I wanted that, I'd turned to soap operas" or "I'm not interested what your friends said about me, Jane, and you shouldn't be either - you should be able to think for yourself". THAT actually got me more respect, and prolonged those relationships - I basically acted as though my behaviour was rebellious, that I didn't care about what her (or society) thought, in effect: that I had options and wasn't intimidated by losing her, nor was I admitting social inferiority to her. I felt crappy about it at times though (even though I was upset at how my innocent behaviour was punished in the past by rejection).
However, eventually it got out that I really was clueless about certain behaviours, so I just extracted trial-and-error lessons from those and resolved to do better next time. That formula seems to have worked, to reach a balance of relative harmony in my current and most enduring relationship. That practice, plus friend coaching, watching certain movies, and reading up really improved me past the persistent rejection phase.
Sadly, this proved the theory (and paradox) that women, NT women, will stick around and try to correct a guy who intentionally behaves in a bad way, but if you're cover is blown as a clueless "one-of-those", you're done, they'll drop you like a hot potato. They don't want to mother you to be better, yet the tragic irony is, if your behaviour is unintentional and innocent, you'd be a better candidate for improvement than the a**hole.
i don't know what sort of personalities that those women you dated happened to have, but that kind of talk would not get a man a date with me *at all*, much less a second date or anything more. i find it objectionable and unpalatable.
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105
i don't know what sort of personalities that those women you dated happened to have, but that kind of talk would not get a man a date with me *at all*, much less a second date or anything more. i find it objectionable and unpalatable.
Can you give a reason why this talk would turn you off? Is it
a) You find it rude
b) You don't agree with the concept conveyed (that is, you think you SHOULD listen to your friends and you don't agree with being told that you shouldn't)
c) Both of the above
If your reason is "a", then I understand. But if it is either b or c, then I don't agree with you. I do'nt think you should listen to your friends. I mean love is not about "popularity" of your partner. So if your partner is very nice but your friends don't like him because he is too awkward, you shouldn't be listening to your friends opinions.
a) You find it rude
^^^this
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105
This actually made sense. I noticed a pattern with a girl I talk to, that whenever I was having a nice, safe conversation with her, it always went nowhere and fizzled out, but when I threw in the "banter" and made jokes, or lightly teased her about stuff, or reacted nonchalantly to a light criticism, it actually made me more attractive to her, and I didn't even realise I was doing it .
It's incorporating a few alleged "jerk" like behaviors into your conversational repertoire. It's not that easy though, and you have to develop timing, also being able to tell when is a good time to throw it in. Use every now and then.
It might not work on some girls, as Hyperlexian pointed out, but I have often noticed a pattern that guys who were much better at attracting girls used a "tease 2 please" method, and every now and then made an asshole-ish comment. And when I say that I observed this working on a variety of girls, I'm telling the truth. I give you no statistic, just what I saw working with my 2 eyes.
_________________
The Artistry
It's incorporating a few alleged "jerk" like behaviors into your conversational repertoire. It's not that easy though, and you have to develop timing, also being able to tell when is a good time to throw it in. Use every now and then.
It might not work on some girls, as Hyperlexian pointed out, but I have often noticed a pattern that guys who were much better at attracting girls used a "tease 2 please" method, and every now and then made an asshole-ish comment. And when I say that I observed this working on a variety of girls, I'm telling the truth. I give you no statistic, just what I saw working with my 2 eyes.
Absolutely.
Teasing is key, and it certainly is all about timing. Some of the things you said would be considered rude if spoken in a vacuum, or in the wrong context, or at the wrong time. But no matter how much women deny it, this jerkish behavior absolutely works and gives far better results than the "nice, safe conversation." I'm not sure myself why it does, but it does
It's incorporating a few alleged "jerk" like behaviors into your conversational repertoire. It's not that easy though, and you have to develop timing, also being able to tell when is a good time to throw it in. Use every now and then.
It might not work on some girls, as Hyperlexian pointed out, but I have often noticed a pattern that guys who were much better at attracting girls used a "tease 2 please" method, and every now and then made an asshole-ish comment. And when I say that I observed this working on a variety of girls, I'm telling the truth. I give you no statistic, just what I saw working with my 2 eyes.
teasing and banter are very effective, i would completely agree!! !! i like to receive it, and i also dish it out (lotta guys don't like it, but that kinda weeds out the ones who are not suited to hanging with me). i think lighthearted banter and teasing are different from seriously calling a woman a drama queen though.
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105
It's incorporating a few alleged "jerk" like behaviors into your conversational repertoire. It's not that easy though, and you have to develop timing, also being able to tell when is a good time to throw it in. Use every now and then.
It might not work on some girls, as Hyperlexian pointed out, but I have often noticed a pattern that guys who were much better at attracting girls used a "tease 2 please" method, and every now and then made an asshole-ish comment. And when I say that I observed this working on a variety of girls, I'm telling the truth. I give you no statistic, just what I saw working with my 2 eyes.
teasing and banter are very effective, i would completely agree!! !! i like to receive it, and i also dish it out (lotta guys don't like it, but that kinda weeds out the ones who are not suited to hanging with me). i think lighthearted banter and teasing are different from seriously calling a woman a drama queen though.
Yeah, emphasis on seriously. It depends. Usually it is how you say it as well as timing.
I actually called this girl a dick a few times (not seriously though) . I slept in her bed not too long after that (she says she had a boyfriend so I did nothing - although it would appear that had I made a move it may have been reciprocated........)
_________________
The Artistry
And I don't agree with it, especially "weeding out" part. I mean why do you judge a guy by their ability to do this "ping pong" instead of looking deeper at his soul and see who he is as a person. So if you have a deep romantic guy who can offer you all, but he can't do that teasing, then none of it matters all because of that. I find it unfair.
Maybe THATS where the confusion comes. When a girl says she doesn't want a guy who calls her names, the guy "hears" that she is all about a nice guy and is fine with the fact that he is not playful, which is not the case.
But from the "nice guy" point of view I can tell you why I hear it. Because from my perspective, it is "shallow" to be rude and it is ALSO "shallow" to attach so much weight to being playful and funny. So I just wish a girl could see me for who I really am as a person and look past my "clumsiness" that prevents me from doing light chit chat.
And I don't agree with it, especially "weeding out" part. I mean why do you judge a guy by their ability to do this "ping pong" instead of looking deeper at his soul and see who he is as a person. So if you have a deep romantic guy who can offer you all, but he can't do that teasing, then none of it matters all because of that. I find it unfair.
Maybe THATS where the confusion comes. When a girl says she doesn't want a guy who calls her names, the guy "hears" that she is all about a nice guy and is fine with the fact that he is not playful, which is not the case.
But from the "nice guy" point of view I can tell you why I hear it. Because from my perspective, it is "shallow" to be rude and it is ALSO "shallow" to attach so much weight to being playful and funny. So I just wish a girl could see me for who I really am as a person and look past my "clumsiness" that prevents me from doing light chit chat.
Yeah, it isn't fair on those who aren't blessed with a spectacular vernacular, but the challenge is to cultivate one. Girls are attracted to that kind of talk (well, most in my observation, probably not all), they don't wanna have serious conversations all the time, they want fun convos, silly ones, even risqué ones from time to time. It isn't shallow IMO, it is just the rules of attraction as we know it or believe it to be. That is what they respond to. A deep romantic guy has a brain - he can learn how to be playful on top of it, it might be a little difficult at first, but it will be worth it in the end, when you have fulfilling, fun and dynamic conversations with women. Be all rounded
_________________
The Artistry
I actually called this girl a dick a few times (not seriously though) . I slept in her bed not too long after that (she says she had a boyfriend so I did nothing - although it would appear that had I made a move it may have been reciprocated........)
awwww the end of your story was sad, but on the rest yeah absolutely!! ! i call all my favourite people bad names in jest.
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105
i like to laugh heartily every day and have a lot of chitchat, teasing and silliness, so i need to be with someone who is able to do that. if they can't i will be unhappy.
_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105
I actually called this girl a dick a few times (not seriously though) . I slept in her bed not too long after that (she says she had a boyfriend so I did nothing - although it would appear that had I made a move it may have been reciprocated........)
awwww the end of your story was sad, but on the rest yeah absolutely!! ! i call all my favourite people bad names in jest.
It wasn't really that sad at the time for me, I was just happy I was sleeping in bed with her . She was really really hot. I do sometimes wish I made a move on her though, I don't think I will ever get a chance with that girl again. I got over my thing for her about a couple of years ago and we're friends (occasionally these days, but we were always friends )
_________________
The Artistry