New Poster: Livid at school, right now---VENT

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Hi, I having been lurking on here for about two years, but am too antisocial even to have posted until now.

I am really angry, and I was hoping that some of you might empathize.

I have a first grader, who is being mainstreamed. This is his first year in this particular school, but he is in the same district since we had the school diagnose him about two years ago.

He is as smart as can be, but he has a plethora of behavioral problems that is giving the school a fit. He has a lot more structure this year, and also the standards of behavior are way too high for him to be able to comply with. He stims. He resists transitions, and melts down because the transitions are too hard.

The teacher is very law and order oriented, and is irritated by things that in my world are minor problems; She can't seem to separate the things that are important, from the things you have to let go. She is escalating the problem with the constant punishments, which make him very frustrated because he is trying, despite what she thinks. They are calling in outside specialists, thankfully, so I hope this can be resolved.

The thing that I am mainly ticked off about at the moment, is that one of her major concerns with my child is that he shows no (apparent) empathy, but she seems, herself to have zero empathy for me or my child. Whenever I interact with her she is constantly telling me how disruptive he is (He is disruptive, and I have acknowledged that), how hard it is for her, how unfair it is to the other children etc. I am sure many of you know the drill. She constantly seems to be fishing for empathy from me for her difficulties with my son. I always say I am thankful for her spending time and effort on him, but this does not seem to ever be enough!

The last straw, was that at a recent assembly she was irritated by his "embarrassing behavior." For him, he did very well, and I was actually very proud. When next she saw me, she went on and on and on about how embarrassing it was for her "in front of the parents....etc". (She proudly self-identifies as being able to keep kids in line, so it would have been embarrassing for her.) She noted that it must have been embarrassing for me as well. I controlled myself, but boy, was I ticked! She apparently thinks that I am supposed to be embarrassed by my own son, who they themselves label as disabled?? For real??? I was terse and informed her that if I let that kind of thing bother me, I would not be able to do what I need to do.

Am I really supposed to deal with this? We have enough difficulties at home that I don't bring into her world because they are not relevant to her. We are proud of our son, and we do our best to keep him rested, well fed before school, and in a good frame of mind before he goes to school. Do I really need to massage this woman's ego all the time, too?

Sorry for the brain dump, but yeah, I am ticked!

Welcome! I think you have every right to be ticked off. Are you in the US? If so, do you have an IEP? Is the teacher making any accomodations for him behaviorally? From your posts it sounds like she has exactly the same behavioral expectations for your son as she does for all the other kids. Any chance you can move him to a different classroom? Cause it sounds like this teacher may just be too set in her ways to be flexible enough to manage a classroom that contains any deviations from the "norm".

I would not want my son in a room with a teacher who dared called his behavior embarrassing. That attitude indicates an emphasis on appearances and social niceties that I find wholly inappropriate for the age group. Plus, when a teacher acts unaccepting of quirks (which these words are, and which can be distinguished from applying high standards to behavior), it gives the other kids license to discriminate and bully.

I actually called out a sixth grade teacher, firmly but politely of course, on that type of poor modeling. Which, thankfully, she got. She just hadn't seen it from that direction. But I'm not getting the impression you would be comfortable with that.

Do you have professionals working with your family that you would be comfortable bouncing this off of? Someone who could dig around and maybe advocate on your behalf? I really find that word choice unsettling; I can't imagine any truly loving teacher thinking that way. And your son needs truly loving teachers; tough is fine, but it's got to have some unbiased "I think all kids are amazing in their unique way" marshmallow with it. All my AS son's best teachers have shown that simple, genuine, ability to adore all kids regardless of how many issues they have and how disruptive they can be.

The "right" reaction from the teacher would have been to say, "I noticed a few areas we should continue to work on, let's talk strategies. I really want to see your child succeed in situations like this." It is her job to TEACH, not to judge, and word choice can be very reflective of whether or not a teacher understands that.

It is wholly possible to have a well organized and disciplined classroom without punishment or embarrassment. It sounds like you have a teacher who doesn't understand that. Weak teachers get discipline by seeking homogenized behavior and action; talented teachers get it by some version of magic I've never been able to understand, but I appreciate immensely (80% of my son's teachers have had that gift). Your son needs to be with truly talented teachers, not ones who only are good at faking it.

Thank you for your quick reply! You guys are so friendly.

He has an IEP and, yes, he has a few accommodations that really do not amount to much. I don't really consider preferential seating an accommodation because the teacher already has the freedom to move kids around as she sees fit. He gets S/T and will probably getting some more things that they have dragged their feet on, but that is another post!

Part of what irks her is that she cuts him slack. She frequently tells me how unfair it is to the other students and that they question why my child is not punished for things that she would punish them for. She is very cognizant of this and especially so on how the other children's parents feel about this. She's very law and order and likes a tight ship, so to speak.

She thinks she cuts him slack, but since she does not really understand him, it isn't done correctly. She focuses too much on his lack of eye contact and that he doesn't use social pleasantries. I think she is offended because she perceives these things to be disrespectful, not understanding the context.

I have tried to explain that he doesn't even understand disrespect, that the emotion itself is too complex for him, right now, and well, you can imagine how well that is received. In the meantime, he gets frustrated and starts to act out. As of late he has been telling her when he doesn't want to do things, and that the class should do things a different way. I know that is not OK, but I do understand why he is lashing out. If I were expected to sit somewhere eight hours a day, and get harped on all day for things I cannot help, I would be upset, too,

I have been pushing for O/T for two years to help with his fine motor skills and sensory issues, but was told until recently that it was unnecessary. They finally decided it is necessary, and hopefully that will help. They are also going to bring in someone with better insight into ASD behaviors to help the teacher. I don't know how long it will take, but the teacher is getting very impatient, and constantly complains to me that she needs help, and can't manage him. I know this is hard for her to admit, as she thinks she can handle all discipline issues. I wonder if she is trying to get him out of her class.

As far as me getting him out of her class she says that the other teachers complain they can hear him making noises, so I cannot imagine they would be well-disposed either. They claim to have picked this teacher especially for him because she is the most consistently structured. I just do not think she has empathy because I think she doesn't think ASD characteristics are morally acceptable. (or something) her preference for structure also means she does not handle the chaos of an ASD child well. if she was alright with chaos, she wouldn't be so structured, if that makes sense. I think if they moved him it would be in a non-mainstream environment, where he would not learn.

I can't really fault the district, other than I think they could have given him more help proactively. The teacher is trying to research things, but I don't know if it will be any help at this point because she really does see intent where there is none. She describes him as "selfish,' and then backpedals because she knows that she is not supposed to say that. However it is how she thinks and I don't know if training can fix that.

Boy, was that an Aspie brain dump! Sorry!

DW, you posted before I got my brain dump sent! Thank you for posting.

This! This is exactly what I was trying to articulate. She is so focused on how things look, and I think a good deal of her self identity is wrapped into being perceived as an upholder of discipline, that she is instinctively adversarial.




We don't have access to professionals that would be helpful. We have been referred to someone who was not at all helpful, and unfortunately I am in an area without a whole lot of options. At this point I am hoping the professionals coming in will make some positive changes.



I don't think she embarrasses him, not that he is capable of that, at this point. She makes it a point to tell me she addresses a lot of things to the whole class and not to him, specifically. The emphasis on discipline is district-wide and even the discipline system itself is homogenized on that basis. The rules are deceptively simple (Like follow directions and show respect to to others etc.) and therefore impossible for an ASD mind to process. I believe they are trying to be more specific and give him more specific rules, but I do not think that he is capable of knowing how to apply those on an instance basis either. Ironically, the punishments while stupid, are minor. It is the very notion that he is being cited for rule violations that bothers him most. Despite what she thinks he follows rules (when he is able to.)

The negativity feeds into everyday and he has new unpleasant things to focus on each day. At this point I would settle for faking it, because that is the best I think I will get. If I knew there was a teacher there with a better attitude, I would jump on it.

I'll have to think more about most of the details in your posts, but there is a line the teacher should be using with the class to explain expectations variations: "we all have different strengths and weaknesses, and I try not to hold anyone to a standard that I don't think is suitable for them. If I'm more strict with you on something, it is because I know you can do it. There will be other times you get it easer. No two people are alike, after all."

The same thing we tell siblings.

Consistency is really important, and my son did always prefer being in a more structured room. But you do also need that marshmallow.

Have you tried doing situational autopsies at the end of each day an issue exists? You, your son, and the teacher going through step by step starting about 10 minutes before the incident? We did that with my son's second grade teacher and it was a big help to both of them, my son and the teacher.

The situational autopsy sounds interesting. I don't know if my son would understand it. I will have to ponder that.

What usually happens is I get a note (not quite everyday, that is where the slack comes. I think I would get get one everyday and the infractions would be marked up more, if she was punishing full throttle) telling me the "level" of his infractions, what rules he broke most severely that day, and when she is especially upset about it, a detailed description. He gets privileges taken away at school based on level, which he apparently does not give them a hard time about. He gets upset by the notation itself. On his way home, he starts perseverating to me about it once out of his teacher's earshot, and sometimes says to me that he is "bad."

I mainly have to calm him down at first. When I ask him what he did, he tells me he did not follow the rules. Once I get home and see his folder notes, I ask him if he did (whatever the note said) He always answers that he did, and when I ask why, he either answers that he does not know, or he could not help it, or that it was funny (he gets into trouble for laughing inappropriately, a lot.)

I will have to ponder if putting the teacher in the mix would help or be too much pressure. He gets so upset, and I think he relives the discomfort when he talks about it, as he tries very hard to be done with it, as quickly as possible.

Do you have my son's old 1st grade teacher? I am serious when I say this sounds exactly like his old teacher. She only spoke in superlatives about him. He always interruputs. He never says yes maam. He is always laying all over his desk. He never could do anything right by her. In her case, she decided he had ADHD and wanted us to get to a doctor, put him on meds and "fix" him. When I said I knew kids with ADHD and he didn't act anything like them, she decided I was a difficult parent that wasn't structured and in was a very looong year. My friends had such a laugh when she started giving me pointers on how to be more structured. You see, I have twins and triplets only 2 1/2 years apart. I have always been an organized person with a bit on OCD about everything in its place and order.

My son wasn't diagnosed yet in 1st grade. Actually, although he had sensory stuff going on and was immature acting, most of his social deficiencies didn't become so noticeably non-typical until during 1st grade. Coupled with the strictest, most demanding first grade teacher at his school, it was a horrible year. We wanted to move before that year, but that year motivated us even more so that we could go back to a better school district.

If I had to repeat that year, I would have not requested, but demanded my son have a different teacher. It caused me soooooo much stress that year. I am so annoyed that I let that teacher push my buttons when she questioned my parenting and I demanded more from my son than he could do that year. I will never be sure all the things she said to him, but I know during that year hang ups about being late for school emerged, this is the year he started rushing to get all worksheets done as fast as possible. I kept all of his work during that year because I wasn't sure she wouldn't try to hold him back and I wanted his grades on everything. I also kept his twin brother's work from another 1st grade class. My AS son's class worksheets where triple the amount of his brothers by the end of the year. I am pretty sure she decided to pour worksheets on him because I said in one of our meetings that he was ahead and that perhaps challenging him would keep his mind busy. She told me he wasn't "that smart", so I think she gave him more worksheets (they weren't anything more challenging, just more volume) to pay me back. During this year is when he started saying "No matter how fast I work, there is another worksheet." This is also the year he started hating school. We have been undoing these hang ups ever since.

For some reason, many schools seem to equate structured classroom with a strict classroom. Yes, your son needs a predictable, well run classroom were he knows what to expect. No, he does not need a teacher who has zero interest in understanding him and onl wants her class to make her look like a good teacher.

I tell you all this as so many warning bells are going off for me. I wish I had known more when my son was in the first grade. Since your son is on an IEP, I would call a meeting, get the autistic specialists at the meeting and make sure they come up with a behaviour plan where everything isn't punitive. They need to zero in on a few goals and find some positive ways to help him achieve those goals. If the teacher continues to say she can't handle him, mention it in the meeting and tell ask them for an aide for the classroom. I have a feeling that will shut her up. Honestly though, I would want a new teacher. I doubt she will ever be willing to see him as anything but a problem.

I am so sorry that you are having to deal with a teacher who is more into her appearance of control than what works for children. She is also setting an "example" for other children, and it does not appear to be a good example!

One question that immediately came to my mind is: Do you have a behavioral intervention plan (BIP)? This is separate and distinct from the IEP and should be part of the IEP. Having a BIP in place allows you and the teacher to have a constructive (read: not personally attacking) conversation about your son's behavior.

Example:
Teacher: Your son is the most disruptive person in the class!
You: What part of the BIP did the process break down?

The BIP asks the teacher to pay attention to the process that potentially can trigger meltdowns and allows both you as the parent and her as the teacher to become more objective and "attack the process, not the student or each other".

Here is one of the most informative and insightful articles I've read yet on BIP (and I plan to have one for my son, even though he's 4 and not yet mainstreamed).
http://specialed.wordpress.com/2006/05/ ... tion-plan/

Sounds to me like your son should not be mainstreamed, and would do much better in an environment where the staff are trained to handle struggles associated with autism. I think there is too much emphasis in public schools on "mainstreaming", even in cases where it really isn't appropriate.

Twinplet, I get this vibe or pretty close. She is willing to learn but I think it is mainly because she wants so badly for his classroom to become ordered. So, I am going to try to assemble some resources for her that humanize my son and autism. It saddens me that this is necessary, but it appears to be. If it is packaged in with helpful hints with behavior modification, then perhaps she'll listen. I am "spectrumy" myself so I can't always sure about my interpretations of her intentions. Sometimes it seems like she is genuinely concerned for him, and then other times it seems like she is mainly concerned about everyone else having to tolerate him.

Jstriding, he does have a BIP, and they escalated that to adding a Behavioral Management Plan --- I know she'll tell me the main issue is compliance with authority. I do ask her if she can tell what the triggers are, and for the most part she says she doesn't know. This might be where I suggest DW's idea of her trying to analyze from 10 minutes before the incident. Her complaints understandably, include his vocal stims which she says are loud and interfere with her teaching.

She also complains about stuff like bumping into kids without saying "excuse me," and not watching where he is going and stepping on kids work that is on the floor. Telling her to not have kids doing stuff on the floor isn't going to fly, at least not from me, since that is what they have always done. From what I have heard, most of the issues, I can parse, have to do with transitions and him not trusting that he will be able to finish things later, if he has to interrupt them. I told her that is par with ASD, and the professionals I hope are going to work on that.

Also, because he is so aggravated, he is "talking back:" telling her not to do things, telling the children it is OK to do things differently than what the teacher says. I understand her not wanting that. It is disruptive, I have no doubt. He also will tear up his work sometimes in frustration with the fine motor work. She escalates this to calling this "destructive" because she does not have the perspective to know that sometimes the damage is accidental because he presses to hard with the pencil/eraser. A lot of the other "destruction" and acting out is sensory and stress-related. Everything I say seems to have the effect of looking like I want to excuse everything he does, when really all I am trying to say is that him being stressed out makes it worse for everyone including her.

I know it is hard for her, and I really do try to tell her I understand that that. I know it is hard with 25 other kids in there, but at the same time I don't really know what she expects from me when she disparages my child. I do the social story thing, which doesn't always help, or at least doesn't help enough from her perspective. I talk to him about school. The school is springing for professionals to come in and analyze what is going on. I just don't know what she expects me to say or do when she complains to me. It is harder for him, believe me, as I can see how upset he is. He still likes school, miraculously, and I guess I should be grateful for that.

This teacher apparently does not want him in her class and he probably doesn't really want to be there either.

Does the district have an SED class for his grade level?

This sounds like what I went through with my son in kindergarten! When my son was in kindergarten, however, he had an aid (which was cut at the end of kindergarten due to budget). Whenever he was having too much trouble, the aid would take him for a walk in the hall or even put him in the special ed classroom. (He was in regular ed for academics and special ed for recess and lunch.)

Getting on appropriate meds has greatly helped my son with high functioning classic autism. (20 mg/day Prozac for day and .1 mg Clonidine at night).

He is also on a Behavior Intervention Plan--you will need an ARD meeting for that. It goes into the IEP and outlines what methods the teacher is supposed to use in order to control behavior. You can call an ARD in order to get a BIP.

With a difficult teacher, you will probably want to get others involved to help facilitate communication with her--the principal, vice principal, or special ed case manager for your child.

It may also help to put your concerns in writing--nicely worded, short letter--and to give it to the teacher or one of the people above. My son's kindergarten teacher (two years ago) was super-talkative and would finish my sentences for me when I would try to talk to her informally after school. She was also hung up on treating everyone fairly and did not understand the extent of my son's disabilities and how much effort that I had put into working with him in the effort to get him into regular ed, at least for academics. (Of note, in second grade, my son is now in regular ed all day with 30 min. help with language arts and 30 min. help with math, if needed, by a floating special ed inclusion teachers.)

Also, during first grade, I finally had it with the school administration playing games to save money and called the central office. I got additional testing for my son, and I got a lot more respect from the teachers from that point on.

ASDMommyASDKid: "[The teacher] is willing to learn but I think it is mainly because she wants so badly for his classroom to become ordered. So, I am going to try to assemble some resources for her that humanize my son and autism. It saddens me that this is necessary, but it appears to be.

Well, I don't think it's sad that it is necessary. It is just necessary. I would be like her if I taught school. My parents were very strict, black and white thinkers and even with having an AS child that I love, it is very hard for me to think differently. If she has any willingness at all, give her books written by AS people. I have been most helped by reading posts on WrongPlanet by AS people. On WrongPlanet's general forum there is Greenturtle74’s Cartoon Guide to Asperger’s. Print out the cartoon if you think that will help. You'll have to change the reference to a bad word.

What made me more flexible was realizing that my ways weren't working. She has to realize that the more she holds to her thinking, the more difficult it becomes for your child. Does he cry at home? Knowing that might help her realize the stress she is putting on your son. Gently let her know all the stress your son is dealing with. She needs a totally different thinking process for your child than any NT child, and she needs to be a role model for the NT children as to how to accept him the way he is so that the children accept him.

I need constant reminders of how AS people think, so I am very grateful for WrongPlanet. I teach a 3 hour homeschool class on Fridays with one AS child who, of course, is different from my son. I tell you, it is very challenging. I do whatever I can to incorporate him into the class, and his mom and I are constantly strategizing new ideas. But when I am in front of the kids, it is hard to really put myself in his shoes as I focus on my material. I can remember the ideas we decided to put in place for him, but I can't think like him. I really teach to the other kids. Thankfully, the child is okay with me.

BTW, as you wait for the professionals, you might help your son do those worksheets. It would kill my son to have all that busy work. He needs less work, not more. He needs higher level teaching, not more work.

I know medication is a life changer for some kids, but in this situation it sounds like an inappropriate teacher attitude, and I am against medicating kids if the main reason is so that square pegs can be forced into round holes. I know this is practically the protocol, but it is bothersome. People need to be really careful making that choice, we're messing with brain chemistry here and don't have long term studies to show us all the ways that could play out in the far off. Some scientists are suggesting the brain actually becomes dependent ... Scary stuff.

Many behavior issues are only issues because we're stuck on process A, but process A is strictly a construct of our society. If you could solve the problem by removing the child from process A, ie keeping him home, then the child is not the problem and isn't the one that needs fixing.

We were lucky, I realize that, but every time things got difficult enough that someone started wondering if my son should try medication, we found another way. We always found an answer somewhere else, and I think my son is miles better off because of it. We're not that unusual; many families do it the same way we did with successful results, and the time to try every natural alternative you can is before the hormones kick in, while you can still physically control the child if necessary.

Welcome to WP!!...well offically anyway
Your kid sounds alot like me at that age....and sometimes me now.
I am really disturbed by how negitive this teacher is about your son.

I am mad...so hang on.

I would not trust this teacher with the self esteem of your son. Get a new teacher asap!
One bad teacher can totally ruin a kid's passion for school and learning. I seen it happen before to a few of my friends and to my brother.

My brother was a very active child and was so hyper that he could barely sit at the table to eat, so my mom used to put his food at the edge of the table so he could eat as he was zooming around the house. After about 3rd grade, he really hated school and his teacher was overly strict with him. He hated school after that year and mom cant get him to go to college even if she pays his way and gas.

I also had a teacher like that and if that is what she says about him to you... it is probably nothing compared to what she says to him when you are not around. They usually are on their best behavior for the parents, ya know.

Another teacher I know who complained about the child to his parent like that would put my friend's son's desk facing the corner the whole school year and she treated him with such contempt. Of course, my friend had no idea that the teacher was doing this until the end of the year because her son was too ashamed to tell her. He hated school after that and his whole attitude towards school athority really got bad. He was a handful as a kid, but after that year, he developed some serious behavior problems towards athority.
Some teachers are like that, just bad apples and have no buisness teaching.

No amount of training is going to turn her into a good teacher. Her need to control is more important than creating a learning enviroment. Maybe a good school could monitor her closely and force her to accomidate better, but it is just easier to get a different teacher.

Your son sounds like a great kid who needs a teacher that thinks the same.

sorry to be so upset, but I am because she sounds like a major control freak that is just teaching for the money and summers off than because she really cares about the kids. I know that type.

forgive me for lighting up like a rocket launcher over this but your son has no buisness spending 6 hours a day in the care of a person who thinks so badly of him.

Thats one of the reasons that so many parents of ASD kids homeschool their children.


Jojo