Page 1 of 6 [ 84 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:14 pm

I'm just going to dedicate this thread to exploring the similarities and differences between autism and schizophrenia. I would make a gigantic first post, but my mind has such a large collection of schizohprenia and autism facts just floating around that I can't jot them down all at once, so I'll just add to this thread as it comes to me. Feel free to chime in if you wish. My main interest in creating this thread is that I seem to be close to the autism OR schizophrenic spectrum and I'm curious which one I'm in (or going in), so I'm examining the characteristics of each to determine which one I might be closer to.



Last edited by swbluto on 30 Oct 2011, 11:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:20 pm

Repetitive, constrained language.

I think I've heard this was a symptom of autism and I noticed that I seem to use the phrase "I just" or some phrase involving the word "just" quite often. I have a fairly large working vocabulary and can easily pull extremely rare words from memory, but yet my language usage tends to be constrained. I also notice that I tend to use a particular language pattern OVER and OVER again in a single paper or post or whatever, and this language characteristic was present when I was 6 when I was writing a paper.

For example:

Also, I went to the store.

Also, I went to the mall.

Also, I went to the grocery.

Is there a similar language characteristic in schizohprenia?



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:27 pm

VARIOUS CHARACTERISTICS OF LANGUAGE

[This applies to various forms of schizophrenia that have a "formal thought disorder" which can display language symptoms similar to autism. Hallucinatory, delusional or paranoid schizophrenia doesn't necessarily include formal thought disorder, though it is present in some cases.]


PRONOUN REVERSAL:
Pronoun reversal is a common characteristic in autism where one may accidentally reverse pronouns in mid-sentence. For example, one may mean to say "I went to the store" but accidentally says "He went to the store", or one may accidentally say "You went to the store" when they really meant "They went to the store".

Schizohprenia's analog:

There seems to be an over-representation of the word "I" in schizophrenic writing, and far less usage of third-person pronouns such as "He", "She", "They", etc.

http://u.cs.biu.ac.il/~koppel/papers/sc ... -final.pdf

USE OF WORDS INAPPROPRIATE TO THE CONTEXT

In autism, there's a tendency to use language in a literal way and a preference for pedantic language (Which basically means using large words) as opposed to idiomatic language, such as "Wassup!". I notice that I personally have a tendency to recall rare words or "rare meanings" and use them as if they were nothing, even though they are actually appropriate to the context. For example, I was imagining being a king, and one of my "dislikes" were "heartless soldiers". I didn't mean cruel, savageous soldiers, I rather meant those who lacked heart/courage. Looking at dictionary.com, it seems that the "lacking heart/courage" meaning was archaic [although that might actually be appropriate from the "I'm a medieval king" viewpoint, but it was on a social site where people would naturally know the "common meaning" and they might get confused.]

Schizophrenia's analog:

There's a tendency to use overly ornate language and literal language to describe something.

http://www.ai.uga.edu/caspr/litreviewsr-published.pdf

Examples:

(Interpreting "Discretion is the better part of valorQ")
Pliant rectitude is a trait more appropriate for
successful living than hot-headedness, which is either
stubborn or crusady.

Neologisms (Literal language):
Using the word 'handshoe' for "glove"

I recently called a broom a "sweeper", and the person looked at me pretty funny.

Perservation

Getting stuck on a phrase and repeating it is fairly common in autism and schizophrenia.

Echolalia

Repeating what someone says is common in schizophrenia and autism.

Use of Metaphor meaningful to only the speaker

This is a common characteristic of aspergers.

Schizophrenia's analog:

Does schizophrenia have anything similar?

I created the following metaphors at one time:

"Should there be a law against those 8-horse drawn chariots that make too much noise? You know the kind I'm talking about, the kind that put silver rims on their hubs and place green-fired lanterns under their chariots."

I was alluding to people driving 8-cylinder cars that blare their speakers and put silver rims and green neon lights under the car. People laughed but I'm not sure if they got the analogy.

"Should blonde females be allowed to toil under the white, tubular suns? With the way the slave market is going, I think there'd be more work for those who need it most if they were only allowed to work under the hot, yellow sun."

I was alluding to blonde office workers and the job market. I reasoned if we kicked blonde females from office jobs and allowed them to only do manual labor, there'd be more jobs available for guys and those "who need it most"; blondes obviously don't need it most because they can easily find someone to support them, of course. (BTW, this was a joke). Did anybody get this metaphor? Nope. They called me crazy instead.

Here's a list of schizohprenic language symptoms that are common of "formal thought disorder":

poverty of speech, poverty of content (wordy vagueness),
pressure of speech (excessive speed or emphasis),
distractibility (by stimuli in the environment), tangentiality (partly irrelevant replies), loss of goal,
derailment (loss of goal in gradual steps), circumstantiality (numerous digressions on the way to the goal), illogicality, incoherence ("word salad",
severely disrupted structure), neologisms (novel
made-up words), word approximations (coined substitutes for existing words, such as handshoe
dgloveT), stilted speech (pompous or overly formal
style), clanging, perseveration, echolalia, blocking
(sudden stoppage), and self-reference (talking about
oneself excessively).

There are examples of these symptoms at wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_disorder

Quote:
Thought is revealed through speech.[according to whom?] Thus, observation of patterns of thought naturally involves close observation of the speech of the individual being considered. Although it is normal to exhibit some of the following during times of extreme stress (e.g. a cataclysmic event or the middle of a war) it is the degree, frequency, and the resulting functional impairment that leads to the conclusion that the person being observed has a thought disorder.

Blocking – Interruption of train of speech before completion. e.g. "Am I early?" "No, you're just about on..."(silence) At an extreme degree, after blocking occurs, the speaker does not recall the topic he or she was discussing. True blocking is a common sign of schizophrenia.

Circumstantiality – Speech that is highly detailed and very delayed at reaching its goal. Speaking about many concepts related to the point of the conversation before eventually returning to the point and concluding the thought. Excessive long-windedness. e.g. "What is your name?" "Well, sometimes when people ask me that I have to think about whether or not I will answer because some people think it's an odd name even though I don't really because my mom gave it to me and I think my dad helped but it's as good a name as any in my opinion, I think it's a little weird to have the same name as two of my other names, but the fact that I like it, is a good thing... but yeah, it's Tom."

Clanging – Sounds, rather than meaningful relationships, appear to govern words or topics. Excessive rhyming, and/or alliteration. e.g. "Many moldy mushrooms merge out of the mildewy mud on Mondays." "I heard the bell. Well, hell, then I fell."

Derailment (also Loose Association and Knight's Move thinking) – Ideas slip off the topic's track on to another which is obliquely related or unrelated. e.g. "The next day when I'd be going out you know, I took control, like uh, I put bleach on my hair in California."

Distractible speech – During mid speech, the subject is changed in response to a stimulus. e.g. "Then I left San Francisco and moved to... where did you get that tie?"

Echolalia – Echoing of one's or other people's speech that may only be committed once, or may be continuous in repetition. This may involve repeating only the last few words or last word of the examiner's sentences. This can be a symptom of Tourette's Syndrome. e.g. "What would you like for dinner?", "That's a good question. That's a good question. That's a good question. That's a good question."

Evasive Interaction – Attempts to express ideas and/or feelings about another individual come out as evasive or in a diluted form, e.g.: "I... er ah... you are uh... I think you have... uh-- acceptable erm... uh... hair."

Flight of Ideas – A sequence of loose associations or extreme tangentiality where the speaker goes quickly from one idea to another seemingly unrelated idea. To the listener, the ideas seem unrelated and do not seem to repeat. Often pressured speech is also present. e.g. "I own five cigars. I've been to Havana. She rose out of the water, in a bikini."

Illogicality – Conclusions are reached that do not follow logically (non-sequiturs or faulty inferences). e.g. "Do you think this will fit in the box?" draws a reply like "Well duh; it's brown isn't it?"

Incoherence (word salad) – Speech that is unintelligible because, though the individual words are real words, the manner in which they are strung together results in incoherent gibberish, e.g. the question "Why do people comb their hair?" elicits a response like "Because it makes a twirl in life, my box is broken help me blue elephant. Isn't lettuce brave? I like electrons, hello."

Loss of goal – Failure to follow a train of thought to a natural conclusion. e.g. "Why does my computer keep crashing?", "Well, you live in a stucco house, so the pair of scissors needs to be in another drawer."

Neologisms – New word formations. These may also involve elisions of two words that are similar in meaning or in sound. e.g. "I got so angry I picked up a dish and threw it at the geshinker."

Perseveration – Persistent repetition of words or ideas. e.g. "It's great to be here in Nevada, Nevada, Nevada, Nevada, Nevada." This may also involve repeatedly giving the same answer to different questions. e.g. "Is your name Mary?" "Yes." "Are you in the hospital?" "Yes." "Are you a table?" "Yes." Perseveration can include palilalia and logoclonia and is often an indication of organic brain disease such as Parkinson's.

Phonemic paraphasia – Mispronunciation; syllables out of sequence. e.g. "I slipped on the lice and broke my arm."

Pressure of speech – An increase in the amount of spontaneous speech compared to what is considered customary. This may also include an increase in the rate of speech. Alternatively it may be difficult to interrupt the speaker; the speaker may continue speaking even when a direct question is asked.

Self-reference – Patient repeatedly and inappropriately refers back to self. e.g. "What's the time?", "It's 7 o'clock. That's my problem."

Semantic paraphasia – Substitution of inappropriate word. e.g. "I slipped on the coat, on the ice I mean, and broke my book."

Stilted speech – Speech excessively stilted and formal. e.g. "The attorney comported himself indecorously."

Tangentiality – Replying to questions in an oblique, tangential or irrelevant manner. e.g.:
Q: "What city are you from?"
A: "Well, that's a hard question. I'm from Iowa. I really don't know where my relatives came from, so I don't know if I'm Irish or French."

Word approximations – Old words used in a new and unconventional way. e.g. "His boss was a seeover."



Last edited by swbluto on 31 Oct 2011, 8:49 am, edited 8 times in total.

LjosalfrBlot
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 135

30 Oct 2011, 11:33 pm

Well, I have schizophrenia and I don't have any particular method of speaking/writing as you have described. Sounds like a chunk of bull to me.



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:35 pm

Here's a list of symptoms of schizophrenia at http://www.schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm. I will add similar symptoms in autism below the schizophrenic symptom and I'll try to provide more info if I have it. The main difference between schizohprenic symptoms and autism symptoms is that autism was present since birth while schizophrenic symptoms are typically developed or "worsened" in late adolescence or adulthood.

Examples of Physical Symptoms----

--A blank, vacant facial expression. An inability to smile or express emotion through the face is so characteristic of the disease that it was given the name of affective flattening or a blunt affect.
Autism is known for the "flat affect" which is basically the same thing.

--Overly acute senses- lights are too bright, sounds are too loud.
Autism is known to have "sensory processing issues", which is basically the same thing. The only difference between autism and schizophrenia is that one develops these sensory issues when you're older in schizophrenia, while it was ever present since childhood in autism.


--Staring, while in deep thought, with infrequent blinking.

--Clumsy, inexact motor skills
Clumsiness is a common characteristic of aspergers/autism.

--Sleep disturbances- insomnia or excessive sleeping
--Involuntary movements of the tongue or mouth (facial dyskinesias). Grimacing at the corners of the mouth with the facial muscles, or odd movements with the tongue.
--Parkinsonian type symptoms- rigidity, tremor, jerking arm movements, or involuntary movements of the limbs
--An awkward gait (how you walk)
Those with autism can also have an awkward gait.

--Eye movements- difficulty focusing on slow moving objects
--Unusual gestures or postures
Also common in autism.

--Movement is speeded up- i.e. constant pacing
--Movement is slowed down- staying in bed (in extreme cases, catatonia)

Examples of Feelings/Emotions----

--The inability to experience joy or pleasure from activities (called anhedonia)
--Sometimes feeling nothing at all
--Appearing desireless- seeking nothing, wanting nothing
--Feeling indifferent to important events
--Feeling detached from your own body (depersonalization)
--Hypersensitivity to criticism, insults, or hurt feelings
Defensivess/hypersensitivity is a common symptom in autism.

Examples of Mood----

--Sudden irritability, anger, hostility, suspiciousness, resentment
--Depression- feeling discouraged and hopeless about the future
--Low motivation, energy, and little or no enthusiasm
--Suicidal thoughts or suicidal ideation
--Rapidly changing mood- from happy to sad to angry for no apparent reason (called labile mood)
--Severe Anxiety

Changes in Behavior associated with schizophrenia ----

--Dropping out of activities and life in general
--Inability to form or keep relationships
This is a problem in autism.

--Social isolation- few close friends if any. Little interaction outside of immediate family.
This is common in autism.

--Increased withdrawal, spending most of the days alone.
This is common in autism.

--Becoming lost in thoughts and not wanting to be disturbed with human contact
This is common in autism.

--Neglect in self-care- i.e. hygiene, clothing, or appearance
--Replaying or rehearsing conversations out loud- i.e. talking to yourself (very common sign)
This is common in autism.

--Finding it difficult to deal with stressful situations
This is common in autism.

--Inability to cope with minor problems
This is common in autism.

--Lack of goal-directed behavior. Not being able to engage in purposeful activity
This is common in autism.

--Functional impairment in interpersonal relationships, work, education, or self-care
This is common in autism.

--Deterioration of academic or job-related performance
--Inappropriate responses- laughing or smiling when talking of a sad event, making irrational statements.
This is common in autism.

--Catatonia- staying in the same rigid position for hours, as if in a daze.
--Intense and excessive preoccupation with religion or spirituality
--Drug or alcohol abuse
--Smoke or have the desire to want to smoke (70-90% do smoke) - note: this is a very normal behavior for people who do not have schizophrenia also!
--Frequent moves, trips, or walks that lead nowhere
Examples of Cognitive Problems Associated with Schizophrenia ----

--Ruminating thoughts- these are the same thoughts that go around and round your head but get you nowhere. Often about past disappointments, missed opportunities, failed relationships.
--Making up new words (neologisms)
--Becoming incoherent or stringing unrelated words together (word salad)
--Frequent loose association of thoughts or speech- when one thought does not logically relate to the next. For example, "I need to go to the store to buy some band-aids. I read an article about how expensive AIDS drugs are. People take too many street drugs. The streets should be clean from the rain today, etc" The need to go to the store to buy band-aids is forgotten.
--Directionless- lack goals, or the ability to set and achieve goals
--Lack of insight (called anosognosia). Those who are developing schizophrenia are unaware that they are becoming sick. The part of their brain that should recognize that something is wrong is damaged by the disease.
--Racing thoughts
--In conversation you tend to say very little (called poverty of speech or alogia)
This is common in autism.
--Suddenly halting speech in the middle of a sentence (thought blocking)
This is common in autism.

--Trouble with social cues- i.e. not being able to interpret body language, eye contact, voice tone, and gestures appropriately. --Often not responding appropriately and thus coming off as cold, distant, or detached.
This is common in autism.

--Difficulty expressing thoughts verbally. Or not having much to say about anything.
This is common in autism.

--Speaking in an abstract or tangential way. Odd use of words or language structure
This is common in autism.

--Difficulty focusing attention and engaging in goal directed behavior
This is common in autism.

--Poor concentration/ memory. Forgetfulness
This is common in autism.

--Nonsensical logic
--Difficulty understanding simple things
This is common in autism.

--Thoughts, behavior, and actions are not integrated
This is common in autism.

--Obsessive compulsive tendencies- with thoughts or actions
This is common in autism.

--Thought insertion/ withdrawal- thoughts are put it or taken away without a conscious effort
--Conversations that seem deep, but are not logical or coherent

Examples of Delusions----

The most common type of delusion or false beliefs are paranoid delusions. These are persecutory in nature and take many forms:

--Overpowering, intense feeling that people are talking about you, looking at you
--Overpowering, intense feeling you are being watched, followed, and spied on (tracking devices, implants, hidden cameras)
--Thinking that someone is trying to poison your food
--Thinking people are working together to harass you
--Thinking that something is controlling you- i.e. an electronic implant
--Thinking that people can read your mind/ or control your thoughts
--Thinking that your thoughts are being broadcast over the radio or tv
--Delusions of reference- thinking that random events convey a special meaning to you. An example is that a newspaper headline or a license plate has a hidden meaning for you to figure out. That they are signs trying to tell you something.
--Religious delusions- that you are Jesus, God, a prophet, or the antichrist.
--Delusions of grandeur- the belief that you have an important mission, special purpose, or are an unrecognized genius, or famous person.
--Delusions that someone, often a famous person, is in love with you when in reality they aren't. Also called erotomania or de Clerembault syndrome.

Examples of Hallucinations----

--Hallucinations are as real as any other experience to the person with schizophrenia. As many as 70% hear voices, while a lesser number have visual hallucinations.
--Auditory hallucinations can be either inside the person's head or externally. When external, they sound as real as an actual voice. Sometimes they come from no apparent source, other times they come from real people who don't actually say anything, other times a person will hallucinate sounds.
--When people hear voices inside their heads, it is as if their inner thoughts are no longer alone. The new voices can talk to each other, talk to themselves, or comment on the person's actions. The majority of the time the voices are negative.
--Visual hallucinations operate on a spectrum. They start with the overacuteness of the senses, then in the middle are illusions, and on the far end are actual hallucinations.[i]



Last edited by swbluto on 31 Oct 2011, 12:51 am, edited 3 times in total.

swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:36 pm

reserved 2.



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:38 pm

Reserve 3



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:39 pm

reserved 4.



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:39 pm

Reserved 5



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:40 pm

Reserved 6



melanieeee
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 106

30 Oct 2011, 11:41 pm

just go see a shrink for goodness sakes :p



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

30 Oct 2011, 11:45 pm

melanieeee wrote:
just go see a shrink for goodness sakes :p


But they cost money and going to shrink isn't really going to help me because...

If I have autism, I have it. Diagnosing it doesn't change it.

If I'm developing schizophrenia, there's nothing I can do to stop it. Diagnosing it doesn't help me.

The only thing it might help with is "self knowledge", but even I'll have doubts about whatever a shrink might tell me because there's a good chance they might be incompetent about the diagnosis.

Also, I believe this thread might help out anyone else who might have similar suspicions as I.



melanieeee
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Posts: 106

30 Oct 2011, 11:54 pm

im not sure how it works but if your developing hallucinations... then go to the hospital, get yourself admitted... they should provide you with a shrink... (paid for by the government i think depending where you live)...
they should also be able to prescribe anti-psychotics.



swbluto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: In the Andes, counting the stars and wondering if one of them is home to another civilization

31 Oct 2011, 12:03 am

LjosalfrBlot wrote:
Well, I have schizophrenia and I don't have any particular method of speaking/writing as you have described. Sounds like a chunk of bull to me.


This is for schizophrenics who have what's called "formal thought disorder" which is the "disorganized kind of schizophrenia" where the schizophrenics "talk funny". It's true that not all schizophrenics have these kind of thought-disorder/language problems.



IdahoRose
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Posts: 19,801
Location: The Gem State

31 Oct 2011, 2:17 am

swbluto wrote:
Also, I believe this thread might help out anyone else who might have similar suspicions as I.

I'm someone who has similar suspicions about myself. Although I have been formally diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, I often worry that I may be in the early stages of schizophrenia. Over the past couple of months, I have been experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations on an irregular basis. I have not yet told my psychiatrist about them because they occur fairly infrequently and are mild, and so I keep convincing myself that they're being caused by something else, such as the light tricking my eyes (for visual hallucinations) or the early stages of tinnitus (for auditory hallucinations). I have also experienced paranoid delusions since I was a child, such as feeling like everyone is looking at me and talking about me behind my back when I'm at the store, or thinking that my older sister has planted a video camera in my mom's car to spy on us, or that my favorite celebrities have read my posts about them on this website and think that I am a stalker.



Halligeninseln
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 382
Location: Central Europe

31 Oct 2011, 4:33 am

Swbluto,

If you think you have schizophrenia you need to forget about the things schizophrenia and autism have in COMMON and look at the DIFFERENTIATING symptoms. Social withdrawal for example can be due to so many different things that it doesn't really help as a diagnostic criterion in this case.

As far as I know, if someone has the feeling that their mind is being controlled by mysterious forces outside themselves, or that someone else is literally talking to them inside their head ( ie hearing voices) or they think that that advert on TV is directed not just at people in general but just at THEM personally (ideas of reference) then that would be a symptom of schizophrenia. Go through the two lists of symptoms, cross out the ones the two lists have in common, see what you're left with and ask yourself if the residue applies to you.

At least I think that's what I'd do. :roll: