The NTs paradox on guaging the intelligence of non NTs

Page 1 of 2 [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

SkipNip
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 120

15 Nov 2011, 9:14 am

I'm usually considered stupid/simple minded by NTs that don't know me very well. I used to half believe it myself. According to NTs, being adept at physics related fields requires high levels of intelligence. They even regularly use the expression "its not rocket science". They also associate natural computer abilities with smart people. This leads to a paradox. I'm stupid yet I excel in chemistry, physics and other scientific fields and have a profound innate proficiency for computers and various other advanced forms of technology. In my case, my particular abilities shove this paradox in their face because its by their very own criteria for high intelligence that they are forced to question their original assumption that I lack it. In the case of many schizophrenics, the NTs are incapable of even recognising their profound intelligence. I happen to have an innate proficiency for philosophy, thinking outside the box and have a good grasp of logic and how it confines the mind. I rarely encounter anyone that I can talk to about many of my more profound philosophical concepts but I've noticed that people with schizophrenia are more often than not way ahead of me in this area. They contemplate profound things which the logical system proposed by the consensus is incompatible with. I generalised NTs there because it appears that the default model instilled in ones mind by western society is where these forms of cognitive blindness originate. Many NTs have had personal experiences which have forced them to override a lot of the silly notions that they adopted as children because they didn't know any better. If NT means someone who is free of any abnormal mental condition then there is probably no such thing as an NT so I think it better describes the degree to which someone has adopted and retained these defacto beliefs instilled in them by western society which seems to be infecting the inhabitants of the far reaches of the globe. The average local of a relatively isolated tribe in the Colombian Amazonian rainforest is clearly not an NT by this definition. The society of which they are a part clearly does not instill the same model of reality in its citizens as does western society which is propagated through mainly through American media which you will see played on TVs in just about every country in the world.



RightGalaxy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Age: 65
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,145

15 Nov 2011, 10:33 am

LEARN TO IGNORE PEOPLE'S COMMENTS!! !! ! They sound judgemental but they are just nuances. Ignore them. I adore my husband. He is a PROFOUNDLY intelligent man but I call him stupid all the time because he REALLY is in everyday social situations. He's easily dupped. I have to watch every penny he spends. Before I got on his back for MANY, MANY things, he used to take hugh risks like helping out a hitchhiker, etc... he ended up getting cut and robbed. He made it though. The wound was superficial - just given as a method of control/threat. He's a true gift from God but I worry who will protect him when I die. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.



Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

15 Nov 2011, 11:00 am

SkipNip wrote:
I'm usually considered stupid/simple minded by NTs that don't know me very well. I used to half believe it myself. According to NTs, being adept at physics related fields requires high levels of intelligence. They even regularly use the expression "its not rocket science". They also associate natural computer abilities with smart people. This leads to a paradox. I'm stupid yet I excel in chemistry, physics and other scientific fields and have a profound innate proficiency for computers and various other advanced forms of technology. In my case, my particular abilities shove this paradox in their face because its by their very own criteria for high intelligence that they are forced to question their original assumption .



This paradox is circumvented by NTs with the Absent Minded Professor stereotype. That stereotype relieves the cognitive dissonance. The Absent Minded Professor is not unaware of body language or social convention. He's just too distracted by his deep thoughts. Not paying attention to something is different from not understanding it. If you show an ability in science, you will be put in the Absent Minded Professor Box and the people in question will continue to think those without social skills are simple minded.

Why does this happen? Because for most people, social skills are literally the easiest thing they will ever learn. It requires so little effort to learn them that there is no consciousness that they have been learned. (Don't confuse social skills with politness, as I've sometimes seen people do here. It is possible to be very rude yet also very socially skilled.) People with mental retardation (but no autism) can learn social skills though at a less subtle level. There is an apparent (though misleading) linear relationship between intelligence and what level of social skill subtlety somebody can achieve. People are not going to abandon this otherwise-workable linear model of social skills/intelligence just because they run into a couple people who don't fit it. Instead they make a new category: those who have the intelligence for social skills but are too distracted by deep thoughts to use those skills: The Absent Minded Professor. Congratulations. That's what you now are in the eyes of people who know you in real life. The model hasn't been subverted. You just got moved into a new box.



Samarda
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2011
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 111

ZakFiend
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 547

15 Nov 2011, 11:39 am

Human beings aren't very good at judging much of anything see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ



Ria1989
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 341

15 Nov 2011, 11:52 am

Did anyone see idiocracy? The main character looked stupid to others which was paradoxical considering he wad a higher iq. It shows how people aren't capable of understanding different forms of thinking and are incredibly egocentric to think their way is correct.


_________________
Ummmm....


Surfman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Aug 2010
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,938
Location: Homeward bound

15 Nov 2011, 12:28 pm

Gauging is smelt wroong



DerStadtschutz
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,467

15 Nov 2011, 2:14 pm

Ria1989 wrote:
Did anyone see idiocracy? The main character looked stupid to others which was paradoxical considering he wad a higher iq. It shows how people aren't capable of understanding different forms of thinking and are incredibly egocentric to think their way is correct.


"Brawndo: It's got electrolytes... which is what plants crave!! !"



Robdemanc
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 May 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,872
Location: England

15 Nov 2011, 2:55 pm

Lots of NT's of average intelligence are secretly jealous of the mathematical/physics types.



Ria1989
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 341

15 Nov 2011, 4:32 pm

DerStadtschutz wrote:
Ria1989 wrote:
Did anyone see idiocracy? The main character looked stupid to others which was paradoxical considering he wad a higher iq. It shows how people aren't capable of understanding different forms of thinking and are incredibly egocentric to think their way is correct.


"Brawndo: It's got electrolytes... which is what plants crave!! !"



That was priceless! Even better to think how simple the solution to their problem was: TOILET water :)


_________________
Ummmm....


Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 35,138
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

15 Nov 2011, 10:42 pm

RightGalaxy wrote:
LEARN TO IGNORE PEOPLE'S COMMENTS!! !! ! They sound judgemental but they are just nuances. Ignore them. I adore my husband. He is a PROFOUNDLY intelligent man but I call him stupid all the time because he REALLY is in everyday social situations. He's easily dupped. I have to watch every penny he spends. Before I got on his back for MANY, MANY things, he used to take hugh risks like helping out a hitchhiker, etc... he ended up getting cut and robbed. He made it though. The wound was superficial - just given as a method of control/threat. He's a true gift from God but I worry who will protect him when I die. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.


hmm I don't think I would put up with it if my significant other always called me stupid...



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 118,196
Location: In my little Olympic World of peace and love

16 Nov 2011, 8:18 am

That's the reason that I'm suspicious of NTs until I get to know them. I judge who would make a good friend based on whether or not that person thinks that I'm average or above in intelligence or not. If they think that I'm below average, than that person is not a friend of mine.


_________________
The Family Enigma


jackbus01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,197

16 Nov 2011, 9:59 am

RightGalaxy wrote:
LEARN TO IGNORE PEOPLE'S COMMENTS!! !! ! They sound judgemental but they are just nuances. Ignore them. I adore my husband. He is a PROFOUNDLY intelligent man but I call him stupid all the time because he REALLY is in everyday social situations. He's easily dupped. I have to watch every penny he spends. Before I got on his back for MANY, MANY things, he used to take hugh risks like helping out a hitchhiker, etc... he ended up getting cut and robbed. He made it though. The wound was superficial - just given as a method of control/threat. He's a true gift from God but I worry who will protect him when I die. He doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.


Talk about mixed messages! 8O
You pity your husband and yet adore him. You say he is profoundly intelligent and yet call him stupid all the time. That sounds like a dysfunctional relationship.

There is no way I would put up with that treatment, but I am also single--and that's probably why.



jackbus01
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Feb 2011
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,197

16 Nov 2011, 10:10 am

SkipNip wrote:
I'm usually considered stupid/simple minded by NTs that don't know me very well. I used to half believe it myself. According to NTs, being adept at physics related fields requires high levels of intelligence. They even regularly use the expression "its not rocket science". They also associate natural computer abilities with smart people. This leads to a paradox. I'm stupid yet I excel in chemistry, physics and other scientific fields and have a profound innate proficiency for computers and various other advanced forms of technology. In my case, my particular abilities shove this paradox in their face because its by their very own criteria for high intelligence that they are forced to question their original assumption that I lack it. In the case of many schizophrenics, the NTs are incapable of even recognising their profound intelligence. I happen to have an innate proficiency for philosophy, thinking outside the box and have a good grasp of logic and how it confines the mind. I rarely encounter anyone that I can talk to about many of my more profound philosophical concepts but I've noticed that people with schizophrenia are more often than not way ahead of me in this area. They contemplate profound things which the logical system proposed by the consensus is incompatible with. I generalised NTs there because it appears that the default model instilled in ones mind by western society is where these forms of cognitive blindness originate. Many NTs have had personal experiences which have forced them to override a lot of the silly notions that they adopted as children because they didn't know any better. If NT means someone who is free of any abnormal mental condition then there is probably no such thing as an NT so I think it better describes the degree to which someone has adopted and retained these defacto beliefs instilled in them by western society which seems to be infecting the inhabitants of the far reaches of the globe. The average local of a relatively isolated tribe in the Colombian Amazonian rainforest is clearly not an NT by this definition. The society of which they are a part clearly does not instill the same model of reality in its citizens as does western society which is propagated through mainly through American media which you will see played on TVs in just about every country in the world.



Very insightful post. I totally agree. People (especially NT persons) make way too many assumptions about others.



Robdemanc
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 May 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,872
Location: England

16 Nov 2011, 1:43 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
That's the reason that I'm suspicious of NTs until I get to know them. I judge who would make a good friend based on whether or not that person thinks that I'm average or above in intelligence or not. If they think that I'm below average, than that person is not a friend of mine.


I remember as a youngster I would often 'allow' people to think that I was a bit dumb when I met them. I don't mean I acted dumb I just mean I didn't bother to show them I wasn't dumb. It is amazing how many people will assume you are dumb and exploit it. I used to select friends based on them trying to see beyond the surface.



SkipNip
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 120

25 Nov 2011, 2:07 pm

Janissy wrote:
There is an apparent (though misleading) linear relationship between intelligence and what level of social skill subtlety somebody can achieve. People are not going to abandon this otherwise-workable linear model of social skills/intelligence just because they run into a couple people who don't fit it. Instead they make a new category: those who have the intelligence for social skills but are too distracted by deep thoughts to use those skills: The Absent Minded Professor. Congratulations. That's what you now are in the eyes of people who know you in real life. The model hasn't been subverted. You just got moved into a new box.


I think you're spot on there. They appear to assume that the level of social skills one has developed reflects their overall intelligence and abilities as a human. My granny has been calling me the absent minded professor my whole life but never in a condescending way. I prefer being considered an absent minded professor to being considered mentally challenged. When I talk about philosophy people view it as wisdom though. A few people have asked me where I get the wisdom but I can't explain it to them because in order for them to understand they must first drop many preconceptions about reality which seem to be firmly rooted and fundamental to their model of reality. Maybe thats part of the reason they are reluctant to view autistic people as equals as opposed to inferiors. In order to do that maybe they'd need to demolish some preconceptions which are fundamental to their model of reality. Maybe they think that by abolishing these preconceptions, they'll be removing some of the foundations upon which their model of reality is built, kinda like removing a support beam from a building.