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MasterJedi
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21 Nov 2011, 10:20 am

just wondering if there's anything out there either OTC or Rx that will increase my memory and concentration.


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gramirez
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21 Nov 2011, 10:40 am

Stimulant drugs will.


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Tambourine-Man
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21 Nov 2011, 11:32 am

Adderall, Dexedrine, Ritalin, Vyvanse, Concerta, etc...

These are all controlled substances and can be abused.

I take 40mg of Dexedrine per day on prescription.

They don't exactly make you smarter, but they make you far more focused, motivated, confident, alert, quick witted, etc...


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mar00
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21 Nov 2011, 11:53 am

Raw vegan diet + exercise + catnaps :D
Other than that it would help if you outlined your experience and possible expectations with such substances. Are you willing to deal with side effects? As far as I know there is a ton of drugs which claim to do all sorts of wonders. Some, for instance, racetams are said to have no damaging consequences. However most suble effects are clouded by depression. In that case finding the right meds is a job of a professional and a painful process of trial and error. I think it should be different if there is an underlying condition. Otherwise something as simple as improving circulation with vits B and ginseng or ginko or breathing exercises might do wonders. You might want to google smart drugs forums and ask for help they are really enthusiastic sometimes maybe you are lucky to find some aspie who's obsessed over them.



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21 Nov 2011, 12:43 pm

mar00 wrote:
Raw vegan diet + exercise + catnaps :D
You might want to google smart drugs forums and ask for help they are really enthusiastic sometimes maybe you are lucky to find some aspie who's obsessed over them.


That's me! Psychostimulants are my current obsession! I'm expecting some vintage advertisements for Dexedrine, Dexamyl, and Desoxyn in the mail today.

I've researched stimulants obesessively for quite some time, and have been prescribed nearly all available brands and formulations.

I recommend them in this order...

1. Dexedrine IR
2. Adderall IR (Sandoz brand if possible)
3. Dexedrine Spansules (GSK brand if possible)
5. Adderall XR
6. Focalin
7. Ritalin (Ciba)

I greatly prefer amphetamine products to methylphenidate products. I know more about these drugs than most pharmacists, so don't hesitate to ask me any questions.


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mar00
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21 Nov 2011, 4:03 pm

Tambourine-Man wrote:
so don't hesitate to ask me any questions.

Okay :D Could you elaborate a bit on side effects of those drugs you mentioned? Specifically how do they present to you and what is some possible long-term damage? I've been thinking about trying to get prescribed stimulants for some time now but I get quite anxious for some reason about taking anything which has at least one serious side effect. I realize that benefit might be invaluable and am not bothered by short-term inconveniences, however, I am concerned with long-term decrease in cognitive functions and the like.



Tambourine-Man
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21 Nov 2011, 9:09 pm

mar00 wrote:
Tambourine-Man wrote:
so don't hesitate to ask me any questions.

Okay :D Could you elaborate a bit on side effects of those drugs you mentioned? Specifically how do they present to you and what is some possible long-term damage? I've been thinking about trying to get prescribed stimulants for some time now but I get quite anxious for some reason about taking anything which has at least one serious side effect. I realize that benefit might be invaluable and am not bothered by short-term inconveniences, however, I am concerned with long-term decrease in cognitive functions and the like.


Your questions do not have simple answers. There are a vast number of side-effects which may be experienced when taking therapeutic doses of stimulants, but most people will only experience a few of them, which will subside within a few days of use. The most common side-effects are appetite suppression, anxiety, euphoria, and insomnia.

If you are worried about side-effects, think of it this way, Caffeine shares a side-effects profile nearly identical to amphetamines. At therapeutic doses, the side-effects of amphetamines should be LESS noticeable than bioequivalent doses of caffeine.

For many years amphetamines had multiple medical indications. Many people seem to think that the classic amphetamine high can only be achieved by individuals without ADHD. This is certainly a misconception. Amphetamines will increase energy, focus, and motivation in anyone who takes them, provided the dose is correct. They may also elevate mood.

When taken regularly, the energizing and euphoric effects decrease. When taken correctly, beginning therapy at low doses and gradually titrating up to the optimal therapeutic dose, the high or buzz is never experienced on a profound level.

Anyone may benefit from amphetamine therapy, regardless of whether or not they have ADHD, so long as they use the medication responsibly. Abuse will quickly provide ever diminishing returns.

Amphetamines are invigorating, and a dose of 5-15mg will abolish fatigue, and boost confidence and focus in any individual. At higher doses a strong physical and mental euphoria is achieved, in which waves of pleasure wash over the body. The mind becomes sharp and the user is given unnatural powers of endurance and boundless self-esteem. Doses high enough to achieve these effects will result in a severe depression and state of nervousness following the euphoria.

Withdrawal: Classic physical addiction (as seen with opiates, alcohol, benzos, etc...) does not occur. However, you must remember that the mental IS physical and vice versa. Heavy users will experience extreme fatigue, severe suicidal depression, excessive hunger, and many more nasty symptoms upon withdrawal. Users of therapeutic doses will experience mild to moderate fatigue, apathy, hunger, and the like.

Dextroamphetamine in therapeutic doses is one of the safest drugs known to man when not contraindicated. It has been used in clinical practice for over seventy years.


Yeah, sorry about all that. Like I said, no simple answers.


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mar00
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22 Nov 2011, 10:53 am

Tambourine-Man wrote:
Your questions do not have simple answers.

Thanks a lot for the answer. Unfortunately so but I was wondering specifically about long-term decay in cognitive functions if taken for extensive period of time. I would think that it has not been researched enough? I realize it is a very wavy question and it heavily depends on circumstances but I hope it makes sense so I would appreciate any opinion on that. I can try to express my concern in other words - what is the chance that taking amphetamine-type for ADHD some of my cognitive abilities might decay rapidly and irreversibly (for instance by the age of 40)? See I am currently in grad school doing stuff which involves pretty complicated maths and I have no idea how do I have skills to do it and I am afraid that I might lose it. While I have many symptoms of ADHD it does not seem to effect the core ability to think and I would imagine, for instance, that normally people do not use this type of thinking too much in a sense that probably some human-related skills are valued more. Again, sorry if that sounds shady I am not very good in explaining myself.

One more question - have you experienced AS-like anxiety related to drug induced *mental* changes?

For OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic



Burnbridge
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22 Nov 2011, 1:52 pm

mar00 wrote:
Raw vegan diet + exercise + catnaps


Holy poo, do I ever disagree with this. Food, nutrition, cooking & diet is special interest (#3 priority) for me. Psychtropic substances is #5 priority interest (used to be #1 for 4 years).

I used to work in a raw vegan restaurant. A raw vegan diet will yield spectacular results for giving you lots of energy and enthusiam, good health and disease resistance. But it wreaks havok on your attention span and memory. I could talk about vitamin B12 deficiency for hours if you want me to, specifically the enzymes needed for the body to absorb it. We knew it as "spacey vegan syndrome."

Exercise is good, though.

Tambourine-Man wrote:
Adderall, Dexedrine, Ritalin, Vyvanse, Concerta, etc...


Also disagree with this. Although they do enhance awakeness and focus, long term use is ultimately damaging to the memory and the brain's processing capacity. An ADD kid who's been on Ritalin for 8 years is not very different from a Meth addict. Awareness increase only comes with very low doses of stimulants (say 1-2 cups of coffee,) at higher dosages they negatively affect awareness.

-

I would suggest the following:

Panax Ginseng (not Eleuthero), Gotu Kola, Ashwaganda, Gingko-Bilboa and Reishi Mushroom are all mind clarity enhancing or memory enhancing herbal supplements. Some of these increase blood flow to the brain or increase hemoglobin's efficiency in carrying oxygen, also giving a non-amphetamine energy boost. These are counteracted by caffeine or other stimulant amphetamines. So if you drink coffee, taking Gingko , Gotu Kola or Ginseng is pointless.

-

here is Erowid link to list of pharmaceutical nootropics
http://www.erowid.org/smarts/smarts.shtml


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mar00
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22 Nov 2011, 2:23 pm

Burnbridge wrote:
I could talk about vitamin B12 deficiency for hours if you want me to

Okay, could you tell me a bit about B12 absorption from casual B-complex pills? Could this ever be sufficient?
Burnbridge wrote:
Although they do enhance awakeness and focus, long term use is ultimately damaging to the memory and the brain's processing capacity.

This sounds as what I am worrying about. I have read conflicting views on this, though. And the thing is I doubt if I can do better without.
Burnbridge wrote:
Panax Ginseng (not Eleuthero)

I would advocate this even though I rarely feel subtle effects this one was very interesting while I couldn't say the same about others.



Tambourine-Man
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23 Nov 2011, 3:16 am

mar00 wrote:
Tambourine-Man wrote:
Your questions do not have simple answers.

Thanks a lot for the answer. Unfortunately so but I was wondering specifically about long-term decay in cognitive functions if taken for extensive period of time. I would think that it has not been researched enough? I realize it is a very wavy question and it heavily depends on circumstances but I hope it makes sense so I would appreciate any opinion on that. I can try to express my concern in other words - what is the chance that taking amphetamine-type for ADHD some of my cognitive abilities might decay rapidly and irreversibly (for instance by the age of 40)? See I am currently in grad school doing stuff which involves pretty complicated maths and I have no idea how do I have skills to do it and I am afraid that I might lose it. While I have many symptoms of ADHD it does not seem to effect the core ability to think and I would imagine, for instance, that normally people do not use this type of thinking too much in a sense that probably some human-related skills are valued more. Again, sorry if that sounds shady I am not very good in explaining myself.

One more question - have you experienced AS-like anxiety related to drug induced *mental* changes?

For OP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic


Stimulants have never revealed longterm, discernible neurotoxicity. Any potential damage would be the result of oxidative stress, and can be prevented by taking antioxidants.

Naturally, it is important to take as low of a dose as you can, but these drugs have been used for many decades and their safety and efficacy have been established again and again.

Anyone who is outright opposed to stimulant therapy is probably fairly uniformed. There are risks involved, but they are outweighed by many OTC medications we take at the drop of a hat.


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John_Browning
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23 Nov 2011, 4:17 am

MasterJedi wrote:
just wondering if there's anything out there either OTC or Rx that will increase my memory and concentration.

It has been tried for decades. Let's just say that if any of those drugs were safe, effective for that purpose, and didn't cause people to develop a tolerance, or if any other drug fit that criteria, Starbucks wouldn't be in the coffee business.

There are drugs that can temporarily reduce the effects of learning disabilities, but let's face it, if you get fired from wall-mart for incompetence, adderall or dexedrine isn't going to help you!


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Burnbridge
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23 Nov 2011, 11:20 am

Ugh, I made a very long and thorough reply to this last night that didn't survive my lousy web connection. Let me try again in smaller bursts.

#1. After brushing up for a couple hours on my B12 research, I found that I am completely wrong about non-animal absorption.¹ Research indicates that the body will in fact absorb B12 without animal pre-processing, at the incredibly low rate of 1 part per 50 taken. A human needs 5mcg of B12 per week to prevent irreversible brain damage, so a 250mcg supplement taken once a week will supply the necessary amount. Just don't forget to take that pill under any circumstances.

Many foods (including seaweeds) and prescription drugs interfere with B12 absorption, so the pill is not a silver bullet. If you decide to go vegan, it is worth your competence to do a lot of research on this subject. I now believe the "spacey vegan syndrome" is caused by trusting natural bacterial sources (like a sprinkle of nutritional yeast on your popcorn) to provide the B12, and having slight yet repeated gaps in it's sufficiency.

-
¹ :( Aargh, I hate being wrong!


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Burnbridge
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23 Nov 2011, 11:42 am

#2. The trouble with stimulants lies in dosage, frequency of use, and tolerance.

Tolerance builds very quickly with stimulants, resulting in a needed increase of dosage over time, and a resultant increase in the side effects.¹ It takes an average of two weeks to build a significant tolerance, and one week of abstinence to restore it's original effectiveness. This was an incredibly common problem back in the 60s when benzedrine and dexedrine were readily available, and students in college would take them to help them stay awake long hours to study. The resultant dependency and overdoses of these students triggered the government to schedule amphetamines as controlled substances.

In high school, I knew many kids who had been on constant 'scrips of Ritalin or Adderall², daily intake for 6 to 8 years. They were fried. Burnt out. The stim.s didn't work anymore, they were having massive side effects from them, and had to go off them. But they had become dependent / addicted on them for their daily functioning.

-

That being said, I personally find stimulants to be quite useful when taken for specific applications. For instance, I fall asleep if I drive a motor vehicle for more than 5 or 10 minutes. i can stay awake long enough to obtain a license, but not long enough to be a safe driver. Once, I was given an Adderall and drove for 10 hours straight with no difficulties staying awake or paying attention.

I do not get any classic "speed effects" from stimulants, they just make me feel awake and alert and competent. This is one of the main reasons I want to see a psychiatrist right now, so I can get a 'scrip for Adderall or dexedrine, and thus be able to drive cross country every once in a while. Yet I have no desire to take them every day and develop a dependency. That being said, I have been drinking coffee daily since I was four, and is there any significant difference between amphetamines and xanthines? Not much, really.

¹ -

Quote:
Those taking amphetamines quickly become addicted and will require rehab because the effects of coming “down” can be quite severe and will include extreme depression. Long term effects of amphetamine abuse are as follows: Restlessness, “amphetamine psychosis”, hallucinations, violent and aggressive or anti-social behavior, weight loss, tremors, gastrointestinal damage such as ulcers, and heart disease such as enlarged or weakened heart, disturbing thoughts, memory loss and brain damage, liver damage, and impotence.
from drug-rehab.com (link)
² - Ritalin is a methylphenidate, more closely related to cocaine than amphetamine. Dexedrine is an amphetamine. Adderall is a coctail of both methylphenidates and amphetamines.


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Burnbridge
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23 Nov 2011, 11:49 am

#3. Regarding herbal nootropics, please bear in mind that one must abstain from any stimulants to achieve their effect, and also that you need to build up a supply of them in your system over time for them to be effective. Most people do not notice any significant effects until taking a daily dosage for 3-4 weeks.

Energy drinks that have caffeine and ginseng both are completely pointless. You will receive the effect from the caffeine only.

I have not been able to personally verify the effects of these nootropics on my own system, as I am a caffeine addict. I have extreme trouble processing verbal thought w/o caffeine, and have never been interested enough in the nootropics to take an entire month away from coffee. Theoretically interested, sure. Actually willing to make the experiment, no.


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