What percentage of WP posters are NT?

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bumble
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22 Nov 2011, 7:28 am

Ai_Ling wrote:
Im convinced that theres a lot of people on here who are undiagnosed who think there aspie. Whether there really aspie is in question.


I think I might be Aspie but I am not sure. I definitely have some aspie traits but I also have some NT traits as well.

I have routines, I have habits that could be defined as stimming, I can be obsessive about my interests to the exclusion of everything else including socialising but I can read some body language if it is obvious and yet struggle with subtle. I want friends as I get lonely but don't often enjoy socialising (unless the conversation is particularly riveting which is rare lol) which is a paradox I don't yet understand about myself and so on.

I have no idea if it is an ASD, a personality disorder, other, or if I have lived such an isolated life for the last 10 years that I have forgotten my social skills. On saying that I never was successful at socialising and have always been the oddball (ie whilst other little girls were playing mummies and daddies with their dolls I was at Barclays collecting bank forms or lining my brothers toy cars up all over the front room floor lol). I have great trouble in making friends regardless of how hard I try, I always manage to get it wrong lol.

I also may just be highly introverted as much of the reason I don't enjoy socialising is because it wipes me out energy wise. Trying to figure everything out is exhausting and gives me headaches as much of what I can read socially is not so much intuitive as intellectualised. I have a high level of academic ability (was an A average the last time I was at University, although it was a long time ago) for example and I often use that to compensate. On the surface people would not realise I was having any trouble socialising if they were to see me in a social interaction. Underneath the surface though I am struggling and that is a problem. I can socialise on the surface, but once it goes beyond the surface (moves away from being a brief casual interaction to an extended one where I am attempting to make friends etc)...I get stuck. I rely heavily on learned scripts.

So I am here for two reasons. I am trying to figure out if I have an ASD and also because there are more people here who might understand my social issues than there are elsewhere!

I tried Social Anxiety forums as that is my official diagnosis but I don't really identify with the people on them as my reasons for not socialising often are not really the same as theirs in many ways. I do get some anxiety when socialising due to bad experiences and depending on the interaction I may or may not show signs of nervousness (it varies from day to day and from situation to situation) but that is by far not the main reason I don't go out and socialise more often. I am not a fan of giving into fear and prefer to face it. The fear is not what is stopping me from successfully mixing...other factors are.

1 Socialising confuses me sometimes or gives me headaches because it is complicated to work out all the time. I have to remember not to do this, not to do that, to do this, to do that, ie don't get too excited about what you are talking about and run off into a monologue, let the other person speak, do small talk, think up small talk, figure out what mood they are in, figure out what they are thinking/want even though they don't just say, figure out their intentions, remember not to talk about inappropriate topics, stay polite and so on. Christ there is a lot to process lol.

2 It wipes me out, exhausts me and can give me migraines

3 Despite how lonely I get I get really upset when I get no hobby time because someone is busy chitty chatting in my ear instead. At those times people are kind of unwelcome in my world. It is like when I was a child and I would be happily playing by myself. My teachers would insist that I go play with other children. Whilst I do sometimes feel social at those times I was lost in a game of my own and was happy with that until they insisted on pulling me out of my own little world by forcing me to mix. I can be the same now. Sometimes I am happier in bumble land (as I call it) than I am in the social world and I don't like being disturbed or pulled out of it.

At the same time I can be painfully lonely. Go figure! But not for the company of people in general. I crave only the company of very close friends etc that I share a bond with. The loneliness is about bonding. When I have/share a bond with someone the loneliness goes away whether I am physically with that person or not. But therapists think my loneliness can be cured by getting me out and about around people. I get nothing from that as I cannot connect with those people most of the time and I am looking for someone whom I share a connection with. Preferably someone who understands me lol. I crave bonds but not the company of people in general...I am usually happier pottering around by myself lol.

4 When I do have friends I can have trouble keeping up with the amount of socialisation they need. They seem to constantly need attention and when I am off in bumble land, I can't always give them that. I try but it can be a struggle sometimes. On saying that, when I share a deep bond with someone though, depending on the type of bond, I can actually want to spend a vast amount of time around them (a lover for example). In relationships when I first fall in love I can annoy partners because I can be a little too clingy and obsessed with them (they become my new interest) although not in a creepy stalker type way. I just cherish them a bit too much is all lol. At the same time I don't always want a relationship cause the practical side of it bites into my hobby time after a while and whilst I am female playing housewife is not my thing. I like the bonding side but not the washing their socks side of it.

I am weird.



Janissy
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22 Nov 2011, 8:46 am

Only Alex has access to the data of how many people have checked "neurotypical" in their profile versus how many have checked a different category. But that's not what you're really asking, is it? You're wondering how many people who have checked one of the variations of autism in their profile actually have it? There is no way to know. I simply assume that people check honestly, with the exception of the rare troll who will check "Have Aspergers- diagnosed" to post inflammatory things for a couple days and then leave. I only personally saw that situation once, and even then, who knows? Maybe he really did have the diagnosis and was just in an inlfammatory mood.

In any case, the entire paradigm of neat boxes that people fit in or do not is simply a categorical convenience. It is not an exact match with reality. The categorization paradigm came into existence to tailor the type of help people get. But it's just a paradigm. It isn't an actual brain map.



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22 Nov 2011, 8:52 am

sunshower wrote:
Mdyar wrote:
I do not see Bi-Polar, schizophrenia as a "neurological anomaly." Why? Simply due to the fact that these ones develop this, and move from a neuro typical zone, into a diseased/ malfunctioning neurotransmitter state -- there is a pathology here.


I agree with this. I tend to see my bipolar as an "illness" which needs to be cured with medication, whereas I see my aspergers as a neurological difference.


As an AS person with a chronic mood disorder I completely agree with you.



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22 Nov 2011, 8:59 am

bumble,

Your description of your social issues describes me 100% perfectly, too. We seem to have the same social personality structure. I think it's a personality type rather than anything neurological, though I imagine it's innate rather than learned. As someone with the traits you describe I used to think the label was "schizoid", but I have since come to see that that can't be right and the label sounds really insulting and stigmatising. The correct term here is probably "extreme introversion", which also carries a stigma and can create plenty of problems in life as most people aren't like that and don't understand it. I don't know if there is a personality "disorder" called pathological introversion, but if there is we probably have it. I can relate to what you say about bonding, too. It's really important to know you have a partner but great when they aren't around because then you can get on with the things you like to do alone rather than hanging around with someone else.



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22 Nov 2011, 9:04 am

SC_2010 wrote:
Mdyar wrote:

A safe bet: There are *no* depressed souls here based solely on clinical depression. My hunch is that there is a significant neurological anomaly associated with all Wrong Planeters. I do not see Bi-Polar, schizophrenia as a "neurological anomaly." Why? Simply due to the fact that these ones develop this, and move from a neuro typical zone, into a diseased/ malfunctioning neurotransmitter state -- there is a pathology here.


There are BP people who are almost exactly like autistic people in the sense that they say that BP is part of who they are and always has been. They would not be who they are if bipolar wasn't in the picture. I'd say many BP people separate themselves from the disease, but there are still a significant amount that take it on as part of their identity.


This is somewhat true. I have seen evidence of this. Having been to support groups for bipolar and from forums, I would say that a significant minority feel this way. I have noticed that people that feel this way tend to have significant manias, but less severe depression. They will say that being hypomanic gives them inspiration in life. Bipolar persons that have mainly severe depression do not feel this way. Also bipolar disorder is episodic and often starts in adolescence, so they often having periods of "normal". ASD starts from birth and is constant and so is more likely to be viewed as an identity, especially if it not severe. I would have to say it depends on the level of impairment, however that is defined.



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22 Nov 2011, 9:17 am

bumble wrote:
I think I might be Aspie but I am not sure. I definitely have some aspie traits but I also have some NT traits as well.
...
I tried Social Anxiety forums as that is my official diagnosis but I don't really identify with the people on them as my reasons for not socialising often are not really the same as theirs in many ways. I do get some anxiety when socialising due to bad experiences and depending on the interaction I may or may not show signs of nervousness (it varies from day to day and from situation to situation) but that is by far not the main reason I don't go out and socialise more often. I am not a fan of giving into fear and prefer to face it. The fear is not what is stopping me from successfully mixing...other factors are.
...
I am weird.


My mood disorder (bipolar type 2) causes me way more problems than my AS. I have been on bipolar forums, but I just can't relate to people there. I can relate to people here better. The discussions people have here, the way posts are worded, and the experiences people have make me feel culturally at home here. I can relate to people here better. On bipolar forums people talk a lot about manias and how they affect their relationships and stigmas also. I can't relate to that. I much prefer WP. There is nothing wrong with weird, in fact I think I prefer weird because often that means people are being themselves and not trying to fake it.



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22 Nov 2011, 10:46 am

jackbus01 wrote:
SC_2010 wrote:
Mdyar wrote:

A safe bet: There are *no* depressed souls here based solely on clinical depression. My hunch is that there is a significant neurological anomaly associated with all Wrong Planeters. I do not see Bi-Polar, schizophrenia as a "neurological anomaly." Why? Simply due to the fact that these ones develop this, and move from a neuro typical zone, into a diseased/ malfunctioning neurotransmitter state -- there is a pathology here.


There are BP people who are almost exactly like autistic people in the sense that they say that BP is part of who they are and always has been. They would not be who they are if bipolar wasn't in the picture. I'd say many BP people separate themselves from the disease, but there are still a significant amount that take it on as part of their identity.


This is somewhat true. I have seen evidence of this. Having been to support groups for bipolar and from forums, I would say that a significant minority feel this way. I have noticed that people that feel this way tend to have significant manias, but less severe depression. They will say that being hypomanic gives them inspiration in life. Bipolar persons that have mainly severe depression do not feel this way. Also bipolar disorder is episodic and often starts in adolescence, so they often having periods of "normal". ASD starts from birth and is constant and so is more likely to be viewed as an identity, especially if it not severe. I would have to say it depends on the level of impairment, however that is defined.


I agree!



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22 Nov 2011, 12:49 pm

SC_2010 wrote:
jackbus01 wrote:
SC_2010 wrote:
Mdyar wrote:

A safe bet: There are *no* depressed souls here based solely on clinical depression. My hunch is that there is a significant neurological anomaly associated with all Wrong Planeters. I do not see Bi-Polar, schizophrenia as a "neurological anomaly." Why? Simply due to the fact that these ones develop this, and move from a neuro typical zone, into a diseased/ malfunctioning neurotransmitter state -- there is a pathology here.


There are BP people who are almost exactly like autistic people in the sense that they say that BP is part of who they are and always has been. They would not be who they are if bipolar wasn't in the picture. I'd say many BP people separate themselves from the disease, but there are still a significant amount that take it on as part of their identity.


This is somewhat true. I have seen evidence of this. Having been to support groups for bipolar and from forums, I would say that a significant minority feel this way. I have noticed that people that feel this way tend to have significant manias, but less severe depression. They will say that being hypomanic gives them inspiration in life. Bipolar persons that have mainly severe depression do not feel this way. Also bipolar disorder is episodic and often starts in adolescence, so they often having periods of "normal". ASD starts from birth and is constant and so is more likely to be viewed as an identity, especially if it not severe. I would have to say it depends on the level of impairment, however that is defined.


I agree!


Yes, I think you put it better than I was able. I am still very new to the whole bipolar thing, but I feel the same way as you have described (even before diagnosis). AS is the way my brain is actuallly formed and structured, I've been that way since birth, so in essence it IS me. I have never experienced times without AS and I can't imagine what it would be like. If I was suddenly not AS - it would be like I ceased to exist and a completely different person stood in my place.

Bipolar however... I've always had intense mood swings, but I've always seen them as something that happens to me - like a cold or some sort of body fluctuation. I didn't realize they were bipolar until I finally cracked it big time and became really ill (and was diagnosed with it by two different psychiatrists, making CERTAIN it wasn't some Asperger's symptom). The downs have been debilitating - sort of like getting a very long lasting illness/cold/flu - something one can definitely live without. The ups I have often been able to use as a tool, to maximize my productivity and achieve some pretty awesome things creatively, yet at the same time the constant swinging plus even the time when I am on a "high" I am never able to just relax or slow down - it makes me feel old, ancient, like in three years I've lived for 20. I feel chronically exhausted and ready to retire and start living a calmer more stable life. This doesn't mean I won't achieve things without the highs - in fact I believe I will achieve much more, because although my productivity and creativity was greater during high periods, this was probably more than balanced off by my complete loss in productivity and creativity during long (much longer) depressive periods.

It's like the saying about the tortoise winning the race over the hare - yeah, the hare may have bursts of energy and be faster, but the tortoise is steady and consistent and over the long run it pays off.


(as a side note - I do believe even bipolar pride is different to Aspergers pride. I think people proud of having bipolar would be more leaning along the lines of considering bipolar to be a special talent, whereas for most people being proud of Aspergers relates to being proud of who they are.)


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22 Nov 2011, 12:57 pm

sorry if this is straying for the conversation but I had a thought.....maybe if someone has something like depression for longer especially if it starts when they are a child it ends up becoming a factor in making them the person they are, so maybe that is why some people see things like mood disorders as more of an illness then a difference that makes them who they are.

I mean sometimes my depression gets pretty bad, but at the same time I've had it for so long I don't know what I would do if I was totally rid of it......I might not like it because it would be completely different then how I am used to feeling. But I also have PTSD and would not mind being rid of it but the way my symptoms of that are going I doubt I will be, but yeah it does not feel like a part of me the way depression does....so maybe it has to do with how long I've had depression vs. how long I've had PTSD.


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22 Nov 2011, 12:58 pm

Hello, all, I thought I would share a refreshing take on Bipolar Disorder. This site was started by a gentleman with Bipolar. It's called Bipolar Advantage. I've really enjoyed his perspective on coping with Bipolar. Bipolar Advantage Blog


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22 Nov 2011, 2:08 pm

swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well even if I don't have AS(cant say for sure since its never been made official.) I am certainly not neurotypical.


What the "neurotypical" stereotype is and what "neurotypical" REALLY means are two very different things. Not every NT is a socially successful party animal as one would be lead to believe around here. NTs have their fair share of depressed, introverted losers and weirdos.

Cheers, pal.

I'm just such an introverted depressed NT. Whether I'm a weirdo, well, others are better placed to make that judgement than I am. I draw the line at loser.


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22 Nov 2011, 7:55 pm

readingbetweenlines wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well even if I don't have AS(cant say for sure since its never been made official.) I am certainly not neurotypical.


What the "neurotypical" stereotype is and what "neurotypical" REALLY means are two very different things. Not every NT is a socially successful party animal as one would be lead to believe around here. NTs have their fair share of depressed, introverted losers and weirdos.

Cheers, pal.

I'm just such an introverted depressed NT. Whether I'm a weirdo, well, others are better placed to make that judgement than I am. I draw the line at loser.


'Ello!

I didn't say that if you're an introverted, depressed NT, you're either a weirdo or a loser. You could also be an introverted, depressed NT with naturally low working memory or you could simply have a depressive personality. There's any number of 'types'.

However, in your case, I think there's a chance you might be a part of the broad autistic phenotype. You've made mistakes in understanding other people's intentions that I haven't made and you already have a family member with aspergers and you're a teenage female so if you don't have any friends well, eh, yeah.



Last edited by swbluto on 22 Nov 2011, 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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22 Nov 2011, 7:59 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
sorry if this is straying for the conversation but I had a thought.....maybe if someone has something like depression for longer especially if it starts when they are a child it ends up becoming a factor in making them the person they are


Certainly. The longer you're depressed, the more your hippocampus shrinks which affects your memory and memory is definitely an integral part of someone. Severe memory deficits is what characterizes the homeless, for example.



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22 Nov 2011, 9:55 pm

marshall wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
And I belive Neurotypical referrs to people who don't have an underlying neurological disorder/abnormality, I mean as it says neuro'typical' as in what is normal neurologically.


No, it means someone who's not autistic. With that kind of definition, it's hard to draw the line around "what's normal" and "what's not" and it can quickly become meaningless if it includes too many people.


Well I question the accuracy of that definition considering autism is not the only variation that exists from normal neurology.


There's a term for the meaning you're trying to communicate and it's "weirdo". You don't have to hijack the meaning of "NT" to suit your purposes, you might as well use the word "Normal".


Umm no actually I am taking an Abnormal Psychology class.....and according to the information I've learned there and elsewhere NT or Neurotypical means exactly that Neurotypical not 'not-autistic' I don't feel I am hijacking anything and there are other disorders besides autism that can make someone come off as a 'weirdo' as you say.


Well, I'm in correspondence with the leading Harvard researcher of Abnormal Psychology and he specializes in mental disorders and he says that people throw around the word "neurotypical" way too often and it means "not autistic". He furthermore said that lonely, depressed EMOs have a tendency to label themselves as autistic because they don't have any friends.

I feel for the delusional. :roll:


Ok so the only neurological abnormality/disorder is autism........got it.


Check out wikipedia on the term Neurotypical:

Quote:
Neurotypical (or NT) is a term that was coined in the autistic community as a label for people who are not on the autism spectrum:


Image

Quote:
And are you seriously calling me names? I'm not a depressed 'emo'.....I have some pretty valid reasons for how I feel actually. And part of it is being treated like garbage by my supposed peers.


Where did I call you a name? If you're truly autistic, you would take what I said at face value. ;)


I don't find boring pedantic discussions over the exact meaning of invented words interesting enough to get into a heated and inflammatory debate over. Therefore I must be NT. I am now officially undiagnosed.


I don't find boring posts worth commenting on unless I'm trying to insult the poster by calling their posts boring. Therefore I must be NT. I'm officially not diagnosed.



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22 Nov 2011, 10:24 pm

swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
sorry if this is straying for the conversation but I had a thought.....maybe if someone has something like depression for longer especially if it starts when they are a child it ends up becoming a factor in making them the person they are


Certainly. The longer you're depressed, the more your hippocampus shrinks which affects your memory and memory is definitely an integral part of someone. Severe memory deficits is what characterizes the homeless, for example.


God I hope not as I have had depression for years. As someone who used to be able to get A grades at University and college without ever having revised for an exam in my life (mostly because I had the memory of an Elephant lol) I was hoping my memory would pep up for the course I have just started studying. I may have to go learn some revision techniques these days though.

On saying that I have always been scatty when it comes to actually being able to find things like house keys for example. I put them down and they vanish. Same with pens, notes I take and handouts. They get lost in a paperwork pile of death somewhere never to see the light of day again lol.

In some ways I like things a certain way, in others I am so disorganised its unbelievable lol. Between that and my social awkwardness I often come across as being somewhat dimmer than I actually am lol.



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23 Nov 2011, 2:11 am

swbluto wrote:
readingbetweenlines wrote:
swbluto wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Well even if I don't have AS(cant say for sure since its never been made official.) I am certainly not neurotypical.


What the "neurotypical" stereotype is and what "neurotypical" REALLY means are two very different things. Not every NT is a socially successful party animal as one would be lead to believe around here. NTs have their fair share of depressed, introverted losers and weirdos.

Cheers, pal.

I'm just such an introverted depressed NT. Whether I'm a weirdo, well, others are better placed to make that judgement than I am. I draw the line at loser.


'Ello!

I didn't say that if you're an introverted, depressed NT, you're either a weirdo or a loser. You could also be an introverted, depressed NT with naturally low working memory or you could simply have a depressive personality. There's any number of 'types'.

However, in your case, I think there's a chance you might be a part of the broad autistic phenotype. You've made mistakes in understanding other people's intentions that I haven't made and you already have a family member with aspergers and you're a teenage female so if you don't have any friends well, eh, yeah.

Good morning. Family members includes people that are related through marriage, wouldn't you say? I'm the wrong side of 40, btw.


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