What to tell young NT children about AS friends?

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I do not intend to be callous, and I have never been called callous in person as an adult so I can only reason that this perceived callousness is a construct of the mind much as the mind perceives a triangle superimposed where there is not one in this optical illusion.



I think this illustrates an important point for people to understand with respect to those with AS.

Using the illusion as an analogous example for communication, people with AS generally do not see the second triangle while NTs generally do, and in NT communication, this triangle actually exists. But in AS communication, it does not.

And so an NT person does a person with AS no favors by trying to communicate using triangles. One must communicate with children with AS in an explicit way.

You might say then people with AS should communicate with NTs in implicit ways, and while that should be strived for, it is difficult for a person with AS to construct these triangles and use them effectively because they are invisible, and any triangles that the other person does perceive from the person with AS, are probably unintentional and invisible to the person with AS. Even adults with AS who have adapted fairly well tend to navigate socially processes analytically and not intuitively.

So perhaps I come across as callous but it is not my intention.



Ill will, no. Annoyance, sometimes. But am I not within my right? I take the time to answer questions to help parents understand their children with AS, which I feel I am far qualified to answer as I am a person with AS and have experienced many of the situations your children find themselves in, and my words are disregarded because the person does not like how I worded my response, or I get accused of being callous.

To be honest, on occasion I have been annoyed by parents' unwillingness to heed the advice of those with AS to the extend that I have considered leaving the parents forum, but I have only stayed because your children are my people, and I care about my people,and I wish to spare them some of the hardships that I and others with AS have endured.

It's ironic, those with AS are often accused of being un-empathic and un-pragmatic but I have found NTs just as empathic when it comes to understanding those with AS, and I have found people with AS to be far more pragmatic when presented with a logical argument to consider.

That is simply an emotionless yet curious observation.

I get it, I do. But just as you say that you can't expect the world to conform around your child, you can't expect there not to be miscommunication between NTs and and autistics. Since you are trying to share an idea with an NT, it might be helpful if you learn to "soften the blow" a bit. When I speak to friends who have autism, I adjust my language accordingly as well. It can be like 2 different languages, I don't expect to speak English to an Italian person and get upset when they don't try to understand me. I try my best to speak Italian, even if it is a bit jumbled. I think you have great advice, but I think you will be more successful in sharing it with parents if you could pinpoint the things that seem to come off the wrong way. My intentions where to try to get you to see that you may alienate readers at times, and since you have such great things to say, I think it would be a shame to not get your points across.

That is what I have been telling parents. Not because I feel children with AS are in the wrong, but because it's unrealistic that the entire world conform, and the child will not be able to lead a happy life if they do not learn how to navigate a world that generally doesn't operate in a way that is more compatible with them.



In everyday life, I make many provisions and adjustments to attempt to navigate the NT world. Constantly.

This is WrongPlanet. It is the obligation of NTs to make adjustments and provisions here. One of those is to understand that people with AS tend to be direct, and need others to be direct with them, and directness should not be mistaken for negative intentions or sentiments. It is simply the most efficient way to relay pertinent information. I do not see why those with AS should always have to be the ones to try harder and meet the standards and requirements of NTs.



Very good. I acknowledge you do understand. My goal here is to try to help parents teach young Italian speakers English. But with the exceptions of analogies and metaphors, I will help them with a strong Italian accent.



I try my best. If they do not wish to take advice that may help their children because the are not content that I do not speak English well enough (to touch off the previous analogy/metaphore) then they are doing a dis-service to their children.

I think the thread just went a little awry when it was inferred that the OP wants the other child to "take" what her child dishes out with regard to rude behavior. But I didn't read it that way, I felt she was trying to help the other mother explain HOW to handle the situation without creating a bigger problem. Which is a pertinent question. She wants her son to have friends and guiding NT children on how to handle the sometimes difficult behavior from our kids is important. In dealing with a NT child, the other mother would assume the other child is purposely rude as a NT child at that age should know better and have the social skills to not act that way. But the other mother is obviously aware of the AS and wants to help her child be tolerant of people with differences while not subjecting themselves to abuse. Learning how to effectively handle that situation with a child with AS is a little trickier.

Hair Dryer Brain in a Toaster World

Hair Dryer Brain in a Toaster World is an article written by a mom to help her autistic son's classmates understand him. It's brilliant. Since the kids understood his differences they were more inclined to truly include him, and also help him on the playground.

This thread may have gone awry but good points are made. My dd has learned by making mistakes, then we did a social situation postmortem to understand what went wrong, why it went wrong, and her part in creating the situation. Sometimes the solution is changing her behavior, sometimes the solution is realizing that other kids can be jerks for no good reason. It would help if other kids understood her.

Hopefully the link is clear now. It works.

Last edited by SylviaLynn on 04 Dec 2011, 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks Mama to Grace. That is what I was trying to ask. xx

Sylvialynne - can't see the article will you post it again? Sounds like it could really help - thanks.

http://momnos.blogspot.com/2010/03/on-b ... aster.html

I'll repost that link because I love that one too! I hope you can access it.

I think an important pont is that yes ASD kids need to learn to navigate in an NT world because there is, at this point in time, very little understanding of neurodiversity in our society today. However, and this is a BIG however, if we don't take opportunities when they come to educate people about ASDs (and all other manner of neurodiverse conditions), then there is very little hope that the discrimination against ASDs will ever end. That's what bugs me about Chronos' responses. True we should not excuse the ASD child's rude behavior but when someone asks point blank to be educated, take that opportunity and don't think twice about it.

Chronos, there is no philisophical difference or some fancy psychological reasoning here. I think it is just plain wrong to advise a mom not to talk about her kid's ASD when another mom asks. I said that in a very direct manner in my first response and I meant what I said.

Bombaloo, thanks, I had been trying to find that article for a while and had thought of it for this OP. What I have done for the neighbors is to keep in contact with the parents and educate them little by little. Good parents will try to filter that down to their children in appropriate ways. Then the child has to choose for himself how he will respond. For one family, the older boy is more mature and does great with my son. The younger son is totally preoccupied by social status and treats him badly. Thankfully the mom will call him on it if she catches him.

I'm glad Chronos made the point she did even if the OP didn't need it. How she said it could have been far, far worse. I needed this word for my kids about 6 months ago. My AS child was beating up on my non-AS child and nicking holes in walls and tables. My friend had to show me that he was capable of some self control and I had to know where to draw the line between understanding him and requiring that self-control. I wasn't asking for this word but I sure did need it. If I didn't need it, I would have just thanked my friend and gone on.

Thankfully, during this time being gluten free has helped my son not get so upset.