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If a fourth spatial dimension exists

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Robdemanc
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02 Dec 2011, 11:55 am

And we could step out of our 3D universe and stand in the 4D spatial dimension and look back at our 3D universe....what do you think you would see? What would it look like?

Like Carl Sagan once showed a 2D universe consisting left and right and backwards and forwards, but no up or down. Then a 2D being would only have concepts of left,right,backwards,forwards. If we took them out of their 2D universe and allowed them to look at their universe from our 3D space they may not understand that they are seeing all the space of their universe in one object. Because they are only accostomed to linear routes and not planar spaces.

So if we left our 3D universe and looked back at it....

Would we see a 3D object like a sphere? Or something flimsy and 2D like a sheet of paper? Or would it look like a confusing mess?

I have been thinking about this and I know that is stupid but it fascinates me at the moment.



DuneyBlues
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02 Dec 2011, 12:23 pm

We would probably have no idea what we are looking at.



Ragtime
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02 Dec 2011, 1:10 pm

Here's my own (I think) little multi-dimensional theory, which I found way back in Wrong Planet's past:

Quote:
The Dimension Hierarchy

In the dimension hierarchy, every particular dimension fully contains (and every possible sense of the word "contains") every dimension of lower number, and is thus omnipotent over those lower dimensions -- and is also itself impotent towards every dimension higher in number.

Example: Imagine you have an ant crawling on a piece of paper on a desk in front of you. For the sake of the analogy, assume the paper is a 2-dimensional domain, and that the ant is a 2-dimensional creature. Now, in the same way that you can see/touch/affect the ant, while it can't see/touch/affect you, so can nothing that exists only in four dimensions see/touch/affect anything in dimension five or up. Further, the dimensional hierarchy also includes, for each dimension, omnipresence across all dimensions of lower number. And finally, this theory implies omniscience, as any being in a higher dimension has a both complete and unobstructed view into every point in every lower dimension. Physicists have theorized that there may be as many as eleven dimensions.

God could be standing right "in front of" you... (have to use quotes because we're referring to different dimensions) ...and you won't be able to see/touch/affect Him, at all, while yet He will be able to see/touch/affect you, and infinitely so. (You can also place the phrase "the universe" in place of the word "you", and the principle is the same.)

God may indeed BE the highest dimension -- which would physically make Him everything He claims to be: omnipotent (as explained), omnipresent (as explained), and omniscient (as explained).


Those are the most extensive thoughts I've ever had on dimensions myself, for what it's worth.


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Fnord
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02 Dec 2011, 1:18 pm

Is there anyone who can tell us the truth?



Sunshine7
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02 Dec 2011, 1:31 pm

A dimension is the cardinality of a basis of a (Euclidean) vector space V.



Robdemanc
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02 Dec 2011, 1:39 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Here's my own (I think) little multi-dimensional theory, which I found way back in Wrong Planet's past:

Quote:
The Dimension Hierarchy

In the dimension hierarchy, every particular dimension fully contains (and every possible sense of the word "contains") every dimension of lower number, and is thus omnipotent over those lower dimensions -- and is also itself impotent towards every dimension higher in number.

Example: Imagine you have an ant crawling on a piece of paper on a desk in front of you. For the sake of the analogy, assume the paper is a 2-dimensional domain, and that the ant is a 2-dimensional creature. Now, in the same way that you can see/touch/affect the ant, while it can't see/touch/affect you, so can nothing that exists only in four dimensions see/touch/affect anything in dimension five or up. Further, the dimensional hierarchy also includes, for each dimension, omnipresence across all dimensions of lower number. And finally, this theory implies omniscience, as any being in a higher dimension has a both complete and unobstructed view into every point in every lower dimension. Physicists have theorized that there may be as many as eleven dimensions.

God could be standing right "in front of" you... (have to use quotes because we're referring to different dimensions) ...and you won't be able to see/touch/affect Him, at all, while yet He will be able to see/touch/affect you, and infinitely so. (You can also place the phrase "the universe" in place of the word "you", and the principle is the same.)

God may indeed BE the highest dimension -- which would physically make Him everything He claims to be: omnipotent (as explained), omnipresent (as explained), and omniscient (as explained).


Those are the most extensive thoughts I've ever had on dimensions myself, for what it's worth.


I see what you mean. But if you say god is in the higher dimension in front of you, then god is not all powerful because there are more dimensions on the other levels.

Maybe in the 4th spatial dimension is where all your spirits live and sometimes they accidently "knock into" our universe. :)

Then we see them as a ghost.

But I want to know what it would look like. I wonder if I think long enough my brain will configure itself to handle the 4D space? (I am not drunk or smoking at the moment.)



Robdemanc
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02 Dec 2011, 1:42 pm

Sunshine7 wrote:
A dimension is the cardinality of a basis of a (Euclidean) vector space V.


Yeah but what does it look like?



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02 Dec 2011, 1:50 pm

[img][800:300]http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF094-Freaking_Vortex.gif[/img]



Robdemanc
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02 Dec 2011, 2:09 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
[img][800:300]http://pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF094-Freaking_Vortex.gif[/img]


That is pretty cool thanks.



Ragtime
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02 Dec 2011, 2:47 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
But if you say god is in the higher dimension in front of you, then god is not all powerful because there are more dimensions on the other levels.


No, because each dimension contains each and every dimension beneath it -- so anyone existing in the fourth, or the highest, or any dimension in between those, is equally "in front of" the people in the third dimension, able to both view and affect them fully while remaining invisible and unaffectable. Each higher dimension is like an all-surrounding two-way mirror with unidirectional inward influence on each and every lower dimension, all of which it contains.


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Robdemanc
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02 Dec 2011, 2:57 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
But if you say god is in the higher dimension in front of you, then god is not all powerful because there are more dimensions on the other levels.


No, because each dimension contains each and every dimension beneath it -- so anyone existing in the fourth, or the highest, or any dimension in between those, is equally "in front of" the people in the third dimension, able to both view and affect them fully while remaining invisible and unaffectable. Each higher dimension is like an all-surrounding two-way mirror with unidirectional inward influence on each and every lower dimension, all of which it contains.


So do you think the god is in the highest dimension?



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02 Dec 2011, 3:12 pm

The OP asked a Science question. Can we please keep religious speculation out of it?



Ragtime
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02 Dec 2011, 3:35 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
But if you say god is in the higher dimension in front of you, then god is not all powerful because there are more dimensions on the other levels.


No, because each dimension contains each and every dimension beneath it -- so anyone existing in the fourth, or the highest, or any dimension in between those, is equally "in front of" the people in the third dimension, able to both view and affect them fully while remaining invisible and unaffectable. Each higher dimension is like an all-surrounding two-way mirror with unidirectional inward influence on each and every lower dimension, all of which it contains.


So do you think the god is in the highest dimension?


I don't know, but I tend to think so, because the theory seems to answer a lot of important questions -- such as why God is unaffected by time. Time definitely governs the third, second, and first dimensions, because they all follow it in unison. If time is the fourth dimension, as has been long speculated, that governing would make sense. As would God's freedom from time, if God is the highest dimension. Indeed, God would then govern time, and not the other way around, like time governs us.


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Abgal64
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02 Dec 2011, 3:35 pm

This should clear things up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-dimensional_space

And have a look at this tesseract: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract


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02 Dec 2011, 4:00 pm

Redacted



Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

blunnet
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02 Dec 2011, 4:05 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Here's my own (I think) little multi-dimensional theory, which I found way back in Wrong Planet's past:

Quote:
The Dimension Hierarchy


Those are the most extensive thoughts I've ever had on dimensions myself, for what it's worth.

When I watched Carl Sagan explaining a fourth spatial dimention, it came to my mind about beings such as angels, ghosts, and God (as well as any creature we can think of) living in a fourth dimensional world, hence we couldn't see them, so I figured Christianity can use that to explain the lack of evidence, but......... #1 That ocurred to me, so if I thought about it, anyone would do as well, and yes, it has happened, #2 That applies to any living being we can possibly imagine, it works for the olympian gods as well. #3 No evidence of a fourth spatial dimension ASAIK, only that it works mathematically.

That means that if there is no evidence, then is all nothing but speculation or conjecture if you like, unless there was someone who actually have observed it and documented the observations. And it looks like no one has.