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aspie56
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17 Dec 2011, 6:03 pm

I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums



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17 Dec 2011, 8:29 pm

I say AMEN to you. I know the clear difference. I was put into a program that had HFA's and they were not as intellectual. Plus, I just saw a doctor about my Asperger's and was told the difference between the two.

1. Back in the old days when they did not have Asperger's, everyone who would eventually become diagnosed as Asperger's was diagnosed as HFA or classic Autistic.

2. My doctor goes by IQ. If one has normal to high range of IQ and also has normal to above average "Verbal" intelligence, that is Asperger's.

3. HFA's can have normal to above average in some areas, while in other areas very below average. Also, many HFA's also have IQ's which can also include ranges in the Mild to moderate Mental Retardation category. Verbal IQ is below average and many have adequate or less than adequate vocabulary or verbal IQ than "typical" individuals for their age level.

4. However, just like others on the spectrum, people with Asperger's can start out having speech issues or talked at an early age, then regressed issues.

5. However, since it is a spectrum, many can start out as a low functioning autistic and end up diagnosed with Asperger's as they get older and develop more skills.

DISCLAIMER: This is what I was told by a Neuropsychologist who specializes in Autism Spectrum Disorders, who does testing for the disorders for both children and adults. I am just sharing what I was told. Please do not blame or get mad at me.



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17 Dec 2011, 9:28 pm

aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


Could you provide a citation, please? All of the information I have looked at indicates that Asperger's Syndrome is autism. Even the research that supports the idea that Asperger's Syndrome is distinguishable from autism does not contradict the idea that it is part of the autism spectrum.

Psygirl6 wrote:
I say AMEN to you. I know the clear difference. I was put into a program that had HFA's and they were not as intellectual. Plus, I just saw a doctor about my Asperger's and was told the difference between the two.

1. Back in the old days when they did not have Asperger's, everyone who would eventually become diagnosed as Asperger's was diagnosed as HFA or classic Autistic.


Actually, a lot of people who would be diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome were not diagnosed at all because they didn't have apparent speech delays, and thus were perceived as outside the definition of "autistic." If they were diagnosed as HFA, then there would have been no need for "Asperger's Syndrome" as a diagnosis to diagnose them. Lorna Wing was very clear, when she was promoting AS as a diagnosis that it was a form of autism.

Quote:
2. My doctor goes by IQ. If one has normal to high range of IQ and also has normal to above average "Verbal" intelligence, that is Asperger's.

3. HFA's can have normal to above average in some areas, while in other areas very below average. Also, many HFA's also have IQ's which can also include ranges in the Mild to moderate Mental Retardation category. Verbal IQ is below average and many have adequate or less than adequate vocabulary or verbal IQ than "typical" individuals for their age level.


This is actually not consistent with the diagnostic criteria, which excludes anyone with developmental delay from an AS diagnosis. There is no requirement to have a below average IQ in order to be diagnosed with autism, and if someone meets the criteria for autism (which does not require speech delays or a below average IQ) then they should be diagnosed as autistic, not with AS.

This article explains some of these inconsistencies:

http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/viewp ... -the-dsm-5

And as this article explains, where you go for diagnosis determines which diagnosis you are more likely to receive:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news ... 18410.html

And this explains that there is no IQ test profile that actually points toward autism or AS by preference:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20528049

Quote:
WISC-III (Wechsler, 1991) index score profiles and their characteristics were examined with traditional statistics in a large Swedish sample consisting of children with autistic disorder (n = 85), Asperger's disorder (n = 341), or pervasive developmental disorders not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS; n = 94). There was a clear and significant difference in level between children with Asperger's disorder, who performed in the average range according to the Swedish standardization, and children with either autistic disorder or PDD-NOS, who performed below the average range (almost 2 standard deviations below the mean), but few other differences between the diagnostic groups were found. The variation in this sample, compared with the Swedish standardization, was generally larger in regard to the size of standard deviations and to the proportion of individuals who exhibited significant differences between indices. The result implied that a WISC-III profile could not be used to discriminate between the different PDDs.


Quote:
4. However, just like others on the spectrum, people with Asperger's can start out having speech issues or talked at an early age, then regressed issues.


This is contrary to the criteria. There are other diagnoses more appropriate for an autistic child who has speech and loses it or has clear speech issues.

Quote:
5. However, since it is a spectrum, many can start out as a low functioning autistic and end up diagnosed with Asperger's as they get older and develop more skills.


This is also contrary to the criteria. Changing diagnosis to reflect improvement is not the intention behind the separate categories. Also, I should add that "low functioning autistic" and "high functioning autistic" are not diagnoses. Only autism/autistic disorder, Asperger's Syndrome, childhood disintegrative disorder, and pervasive developmental disorder - not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS) are diagnoses. Rhett's Syndrome is also considered to be on the spectrum, but will no longer be considered as such in the DSM-V.

Quote:
DISCLAIMER: This is what I was told by a Neuropsychologist who specializes in Autism Spectrum Disorders, who does testing for the disorders for both children and adults. I am just sharing what I was told. Please do not blame or get mad at me.


I am not blaming or mad at you, just to be clear, but as with many clinicians who diagnose PDDs, that neuropsychiatrist has personalized and idiosyncratic diagnostic criteria that do not actually follow established criteria.

Also, from the DSM-V rationale for the removal of Asperger's Syndrome and the merging of the category into Autism Spectrum Disorder:

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/P ... px?rid=97#

Quote:
1.1. Do the DSM-IV criteria work in clinical practice?

A number of published papers have argued that the DSM-IV Asperger disorder criteria do not work in the clinic (e.g., Mayes et al., 2001; Miller & Ozonoff, 2000; Leekam, Libby, Wing, Gould & Gillberg, 2000). Specifically, key problems exist in applying the current criteria:

· Early language details are hard to establish in retrospect, especially for older children and adults; average age of first diagnosis is late (7 years according to Mandell et al. 2005; 11yrs, Howlin & Asgharian, 1999).

· The trumping rule means most/all Asperger cases should strictly be diagnosed as having ‘Autistic disorder’ (Miller & Ozonoff, 2000; Bennett et al, 2008; Williams et al, 2008), although clinicians prefer to give the more specific term (Mahoney, et al.,1998)

o Specifically, since language delay is not a necessary criterion for Autistic disorder, to meet criteria for Asperger disorder (without being trumped by Autistic disorder), a person would need to fail to meet Communication criteria for Autistic disorder. In practice, the Communication criterion (B.2.) of “marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others” is typically met by even very able individuals fitting the Asperger picture.

As a result, ‘Asperger syndrome’ is used loosely with little agreement: e.g. Williams et al (2008) survey of 466 professionals reporting on 348 relevant cases, showed 44% of children given Asperger, PDD-NOS, atypical autism, or ‘other ASD’ label actually fulfilled criteria for Autistic Disorder (overall agreement between clinician’s label and DSM-IV criteria; Kappa 0.31).


Further explanations can be read at the link.



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17 Dec 2011, 9:45 pm

Redacted



Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 5:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

aspie56
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17 Dec 2011, 9:46 pm

Aspergers long time ago has been THOUGHT to be autism or HFA.. However aspergers IS on the Autistic specturm. but aspergers and HFA are two different things



aspie56
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17 Dec 2011, 9:52 pm

nat4200 wrote:
aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


^ can't tell if trolling or just stupid

Image


No I'm just a 14 year old : , I;m sorry if I can't impress a group of adults on this site. :roll: :roll:

Also I read the other authors link, if their making the Asperges disorder into just "autism disorder" adding new stuff to be autistic, then I will NOT meet the criteria. I know im not weird.. I know have some form of Aspergers.



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17 Dec 2011, 10:05 pm

aspie56 wrote:
Aspergers long time ago has been THOUGHT to be autism or HFA.. However aspergers IS on the Autistic specturm. but aspergers and HFA are two different things


Citation needed, please. Don't just make assertions, support them.

Quote:
Also I read the other authors link, if their making the Asperges disorder into just "autism disorder" adding new stuff to be autistic, then I will NOT meet the criteria. I know im not weird.. I know have some form of Aspergers.


What do you mean by "I know I'm not weird"? How is that relevant to diagnosis or autism?

Also, that's not an "if." It's currently a "when," and "when" is scheduled to be 2013.

Plus, if you don't meet the criteria, there's always Social Communication Disorder



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17 Dec 2011, 10:08 pm

nat4200 wrote:
aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


^ can't tell if trolling or just stupid


The moderators historically frown on calling posters trolls, and I think "stupid" qualifies as a personal attack, which is explicitly against the forum rules.

If you think someone is trolling, it's best to notify a moderator - either in PM or via a thread set aside for the purpose in the wrongplanet.net discussion subforum. This generally works better than calling people out in threads.



aspie56
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17 Dec 2011, 10:24 pm

Verdandi wrote:
nat4200 wrote:
aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


^ can't tell if trolling or just stupid


The moderators historically frown on calling posters trolls, and I think "stupid" qualifies as a personal attack, which is explicitly against the forum rules.

If you think someone is trolling, it's best to notify a moderator - either in PM or via a thread set aside for the purpose in the wrongplanet.net discussion subforum. This generally works better than calling people out in threads.


I do not know a citation. I always thought Aspergers and HFA are a different thing. Right now my label says "Aspergers" , I am not trying to be like an NT or anything .. I am just ME and myself, and being myself makes me "normal" according to NTs. I just do not like being labeled HFA :S I perfer "Aspergers" better .. This thing is very confusing. as some say Aspergers is not HFA , but some say it is.



aspie56
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17 Dec 2011, 10:25 pm

Verdandi wrote:
nat4200 wrote:
aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


^ can't tell if trolling or just stupid


The moderators historically frown on calling posters trolls, and I think "stupid" qualifies as a personal attack, which is explicitly against the forum rules.

If you think someone is trolling, it's best to notify a moderator - either in PM or via a thread set aside for the purpose in the wrongplanet.net discussion subforum. This generally works better than calling people out in threads.


I thank you for standin up to me to. :) Your pretty decent



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17 Dec 2011, 10:31 pm

aspie56 wrote:
I do not know a citation. I always thought Aspergers and HFA are a different thing. Right now my label says "Aspergers" , I am not trying to be like an NT or anything .. I am just ME and myself, and being myself makes me "normal" according to NTs. I just do not like being labeled HFA :S I perfer "Aspergers" better .. This thing is very confusing. as some say Aspergers is not HFA , but some say it is.


Oh, I mean there is research that has found differences between people diagnosed with AS and diagnosed with autism, but similar research that finds no differences. Plus a lot of the research didn't have very good methods for distinguishing them from each other before concluding.

I saw some research the other day in which someone collated data from multiple studies that included either brain scans of people diagnosed with autism to neurotypical brains or brain scans of people diagnosed with Asperger's to neurotypical brains. This study found differences between autistic and AS brains, but the findings are inconclusive. One reason they're inconclusive is because there are no studies that include both people diagnosed with autism and people diagnosed with AS, so the differences that were noted may not appear in such a study.

I'm not trying to challenge you or call you out, though. I just get a bit focused on threads like this.



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17 Dec 2011, 10:47 pm

aspie56 wrote:
nat4200 wrote:
aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


^ can't tell if trolling or just stupid

Image


No I'm just a 14 year old : , I;m sorry if I can't impress a group of adults on this site. :roll: :roll:



If you want to be treated gently because you are a child perhaps you shouldn't lie about your age in your profile and claim that you are 33?

aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?!


This bit comes across as troll to me. It doesn't matter how many capitals you use or how how many question & exclamation marks you put at the end of your sentence you are still completely wrong.

aspie56 wrote:
oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


This bit comes across as attention whore.



aspie56
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17 Dec 2011, 10:52 pm

DC wrote:
aspie56 wrote:
nat4200 wrote:
aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


^ can't tell if trolling or just stupid

Image


No I'm just a 14 year old : , I;m sorry if I can't impress a group of adults on this site. :roll: :roll:



If you want to be treated gently because you are a child perhaps you shouldn't lie about your age in your profile and claim that you are 33?

aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?!


This bit comes across as troll to me. It doesn't matter how many capitals you use or how how many question & exclamation marks you put at the end of your sentence you are still completely wrong.

aspie56 wrote:
oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums


This bit comes across as attention whore.


DC, I just really don't care anymore. Why are people in this site so negative and mean? Don't get more wrong .. their are some great users in this site but some users who are negative and mean. Also because someone is "wrong" does not mean their a troll. :roll: And why do ya think a 14 year old would put their 33? hm?? I don't care what you think about me, and i do NOT care if you all think I'm a troll or NOT 'cause I do NOT intend to become a regular or "vetran" in this site, as I only visit about once every two months maybe??



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17 Dec 2011, 11:52 pm

aspie56 wrote:
I need to get one thing clear here. Aspgers is NOT HFA... ITS NOT AUTISM.. nor HFA.. ok?!?! Aspergers and HFA share some stuff but their not the same. oh and check my new thread in the Teen Autism Forums
It is autism, whether you want to accept it or not. I thought you knew that before posting here.



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18 Dec 2011, 12:18 am

I used to care about this (pedantic after all), but eh, there's nothing to it; you'll find just as much variation in people with AS as you will comparing AS to HFA.

Technically, I presented as HFA as a child, the aloofness, speech delay, and good motor skills.

Now, apart from the good motor skills (problems with motor skills might or might not be there in AS), I'm the same as someone with AS: obsessive interest and poor social/emotional reciprocity being the two big things.

It's drawing spider hairs, that's how close they are.



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18 Dec 2011, 12:22 am

Redacted



Last edited by nat4200 on 19 Apr 2012, 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.