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alex
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18 Feb 2005, 11:13 pm

Wired has their own aspie quiz and other sites do as well. I think that wrongplanet needs to have its own quiz that measures the disorder better than the other quizzes do. This thread is for formulating the ideas.


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Last edited by alex on 17 Apr 2005, 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tim_p
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18 Feb 2005, 11:33 pm

Good idea.

I think the questions should be categorized, at least while the quiz is still in development. I think we should suggest types of questions first and then work on the individual questions.

For starters I think these topics would be good.
1:Social Issues
2:Sensory Integration Issues
3:Stimming
4:Style of Thought



Feste-Fenris
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19 Feb 2005, 1:10 am

You might be an Asperg if...

You honestly loved the plot twists on the Matrix sequels...

Doctor Frankenstein sees your study and runs screaming; begging for forgiveness from God.

You cannot bring yourself to throw out a computer...

You re-adapt those awful 'Redneck' jokes to an even lamer format...

You use self-referential humour so often people ask where your webcomic is...



vetivert
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19 Feb 2005, 3:33 am

i'm a bit wary of this, quite honestly. it would HAVE to state that it was "light-hearted", rather than a serious diagnostic tool. the Wired site is not their own test, but the baron-cohen one from the autistic research place in cambridge, uk.

and before anyone jumps on me for suggesting that NT-intitiated tests are crap, and one generated by "real" aspies would be better, that may be the case, but i'm remembering other well-meaning people on this site who give advice on whether they think members have AS or not. some people are more vulnerable than others, and i think we have a responsibility to them, in that we are responsible not FOR them, but for our own actions, individual or collective.

i probably look like Morgvis-the-horrible-negative-put-downer here - sorry if that bothers you, folks. have a quiz or list of characteristics, yes - a great idea - but make sure it's clearly stated that it is simply that, and not a diagnostic test.



Asparval
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19 Feb 2005, 9:01 am

Why not do a detailed survey that measures the extent of all the core and periferal, diagnostic and assosiated characteristics in the WP poulation.

This way we can really see the validity of the current diagnostic criteria and whether there are any additional features that may be added.

If you read the details of these experiments such as the Simon Baron-Cohen experiment to test the validity of his diagnostic tool you will be surprised at how small a sample the results are gathered from.

It would be really exciting in that we have nearly 1000 members to draw these results from. Of course the success would rely on encouraging as many members to participate as possible.



Cato
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21 Feb 2005, 10:37 pm

I agree with Morgvis. The Wired test from Baron-Cohen can be useful, if only because it comes from someone with AS diagnostic experience. I have a hypochondriac aunt who reads a list of symptoms and is then convinced that she has a disease. I would not want to spread that kind of thinking.

On the other hand, a "fun" type of test may invite a lot of input from members.

That's my $0.02 anyway.


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coyote
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12 Mar 2005, 2:08 pm

Cato has a point. Some test are like "read the statement and rate on a scale what score you have'. Anyone a bit hypocondriac will tend to score higher than he/she would if he/she was honest. I often thought of that while taking tests, it's not objective. I thought of a possible solution though.

It would be very simple (programming wise) to have hidden 'negative' question. For example, a question like 'do you often do X' which is in fact a thing that an Aspie wouldn't do much. The higher they score, the lesser it gives them points fot that item.

Those 'negative' question should look the same as the 'positive one', be numerous (maybe 30/70 negative/positive ?) and should be well mixed with the other so one could not 'cheat' on it.

Just a thought....



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12 Mar 2005, 2:29 pm

Another thing. There should be several kind of question type.

The classic 'on a scale of 1 to 5, rate how otfen you do ....',

some yes/no/don't know,

some 'pick the situation that best describe how you would have reacted',

and some other i haven't though of yet.....

Yet another thing. I think all of us has been confronted with question where it doesn't apply to yourself. The pointing system should be able to give negative result as well as positive result. And there could be a neutral choice where you score 0 when it doesn't apply or you don't know.

Some question should have more impact on final score than others depending on the topic (some gives from -5 to 5 points while others gives -10 to 10 (stepping by 2), while other can gives -15 to 15 point (stepping by 3) etc...). I know the ponderation of each question will start debate, but this will be good for the quality of the test....



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12 Mar 2005, 2:39 pm

Sorry for the third post in a row but ideas comes this morning....

There could be a mecanism where one would have an ID with a password. The test would be split in 3 or 4 or 5 (or ?) sequence (not relevant to topic, each topic appearing in each sequence) that HAVE to be taken a couple of days appart. You get your score when you fisnish all sequence, after 10 or 15 days ....?

Some important questions should appears on more than one sequence, and if the result vary from time to time, well..... we could decide if we take the average or reject that question ....? What do you think for that ?



thechadmaster
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21 Mar 2005, 5:24 pm

could someone post the link here?



gwynfryn
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03 Apr 2005, 5:19 pm

Alex, it's a sound idea! A well-meaning "aspie" site should strive for such a thing, and one would think a site full of "Aspies" would work together for such a conclusion?

Regrettably, there's no clear definition, and there are so many people, like Vetivert, for example, who pretend to be reasonable, but who are uniformly devious, and who are resolutely anti-Aspie...

I would hope that WP, at least, is a pro-Aspie site?



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03 Apr 2005, 5:24 pm

Pro-aspie yes Gwynfryn, anti-everyone-else, no. Bear in mind please the site policy before making personal comments on other members again, and for the record I agree completely with vetivert's caveat regarding anything we devise as a substitute for a diagnostic test/assessment, as such a thing is bound to be subjective.

This is an open forum which strives to make ALL members feel welcome, and I do not feel anyone needs to prove their 'aspieness' to post here.

Dunc


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03 Apr 2005, 5:38 pm

duncvis wrote:
This is an open forum which strives to make ALL members feel welcome, and I do not feel anyone needs to prove their 'aspieness' to post here.


Maybe we could make everyone not post for 6 months to prove their non-communicative aspieness before letting them in or something..... :wink:


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gwynfryn
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05 Apr 2005, 4:26 pm

duncvis wrote:
Pro-aspie yes Gwynfryn, anti-everyone-else, no. Bear in mind please the site policy before making personal comments on other members again,...


No problem with your comment in general dunc, and I take your point that WP was always an open site (and made no claim to be a "refuge for Aspergians" for example) but am I the only one who's noticed that "Aspie" sites are currently chock full with people who, when you look at their overall input, are clearly intent on preventing the very thing that Alex suggested, namely that we should have a concrete definition of what we understand by "Aspie", and a way of identifying those who fit. When I see any threads which threaten to get constructive in this vein, being drowned in verbiage, misinformation, and deliberate changes of subject, then I smell a rat! When I notice it's the same hard-core of spoilers who use the same (fairly) subtle (at least until they become obvious) excuses, time and time again, then the stink get's nauseous (and I, understandably I hope, sometimes get angry; it's all very well trying to be "fair", but do we really need to be fair to people who's clear intent is inimical to our interests? Forgive me if I suggest that that is suicidally stupid!).

Bear in mind that it's over just twelve months since I joined my first Aspie site, hoping to find enlightenment, and found little but disinformation and confusion. I've tried hard in that time to do research on the fundamentals, as have a few others, and we've posted our findings on the various boards in the hope we'd assist understanding, and promote useful debates to improve that understanding, but are we any further foward? It seems to me it's actually more confusing than ever, with more garbage, like that idiotic "Meyers" list (hey Ma, it says "Aspies" have four limbs, one head, one nose... and so have I; so I must be an Aspie right?) to sucker those who just want to "belong", and a determined effort by some "Aspie" site administrations to actually give preferential treatment to those they know to be fakes (take a look at AI's new pro-troll rules for an example) by making it an offence for others to actually challenge their status (Oh sure, it's painted as a way of making it a nice friendly site, where everyone can be free of any nasty questions; but ask yourself, why would real Aspies need such protection? Aspergia managed without such detailed rules, and was largely self moderated, at least until it was flooded with hordes of trendies, many of whom were there with the intention of enforcing it's closure).

It's just as bad on the web; just google "Hans Asperger" and you'll get a ream of "expert" sites, most finding no distinction between Asperger's and Kanner's writings, and of those that do, some get it the wrong way round! I've found few who've understood that Lorna Wings "Asperger's Syndrome" (on which the DSM seems loosely based) is not a translation of Asperger's writings, but rather a reinterpretation, based on a later (mis)understanding of what "autism" means. I even saw one site which suggested that a symptom of AS was a poor tollerence for traffic noise, or standing in line...think about it; do you know many people who actually enjoy traffic noise or queuing?

Do you see what's happening here? Someone is making a determined effort to dilute and distort what it's all about, partly, I suspect, so we can't ever get any legislation in place to give us equal employment prospects (which needs a concrete designation) at least in the short term, and, with current developments in genetic research, a long term desire to eliminate us completely. Sounds fantastic maybe, but consider how job ads now concentrate almost exclusively on "team work" and "excellent(sic) inter-personal skills", even for functions which are almost exclusively head work (which Aspies, at least by one definition, excel at). Consider how even science text books now tell us the age of the lone scientist or inventor is over (which is about as valid as that claim from a previous governor of the US patents office, of a century or more ago, who stated "all that can be invented, has been invented"! It's bollocks; I've invented dozens of items, all of which were trashed by the deliberate efforts of one or more of my managers).

Anyway, enough of that (this was supposed to be flying visit) if we'd been left to develop our own ideas, without determined interference, then wouldn't we have a clearer picture? One of the techniques to prevent this, which may seem plausible is in what dunc said;

Quote:
...and for the record I agree completely with vetivert's caveat regarding anything we devise as a substitute for a diagnostic test/assessment, as such a thing is bound to be subjective.


Actually, dunc, that is not even plausible! Quite apart from the DSM's unscientific method, which I presume you are reffering too? (one cannot possibly define anything by lumping together any six of twelve symptoms; this is the technical equivalent of knocking round pegs into square holes, and vice-versa, simultaneously!) the basis is a misunderstanding of Asperger's intent. Think about this; before the DSM (which is not the only such diagnosis; the UK system is quite different, and based on a direct translation of what Asperger actually wrote, and even that fails to some extent as it's been interpreted, by and large, by NTs) an Aspie was generally understood to be a socially impaired (now that is subjective) but technically profficient, so why then, when discussions develop on things like religious beliefs (and politics...attitudes in general) we find a far greater degree of correlation between us "self-diagnosed" than among DSM Aspies? Why is it deemed of lesser worth than a fairly random and arbitrary assessment applied by clinicians who for the most part are NT? Why do those of us who spend our lives at odds with most of society, for the most part not understanding why (at least until we hear about previously intangible concepts like body-language, the lack of which, in his subjects, was central to Aspergers observations) are considered somehow less cosher, because we lack the more obvious symptoms which the DSM concentrates on (noticed how so many authorities keep quoting the origin of the word autism, but overlook the fact that dyspraxia, stimming, sensory issues and other aspects of the DSM diagnosis have no obvious bearing on the word?)? Right there we have evidence of a deliberate downgrading of AS, and anyone who assumes the DSM version is a gold standard, isn't thinking clearly on this!

It's the DSM which is subjective! If it had been designed to undermine the notion that autism is an essential and valuable part of the human genotype, then it could hardly have been designed better!

That autism, according to it's original meaning, is of fundamental importance, would be clear to any reader of science history, if they were familiar with that understanding, as most of those who gave us the great breakthroughs in science and technology show clear signs of autism (but few signs of the DSM version of AS, though there is a partial overlap). This observation, of course, is fraught with problems, and I for one have little wish to take away the "Aspie" label from those who consider it valuable (the truly autistic have little use for labels) and so we may need a graded understanding of what "Aspie" means, or maybe even two entirely seperate designations? One thing is clear; "Aspie" at present is too nebulous a term to be practically useful, and this very fact is being used against us!

So back to the proposition: an Aspie quiz? Well sure, why not if it's scientifically sound; but I've been pursuing something more involved. I'd like to set up a research site, run by Aspies (yes dunc, by my subjective definition, but it wouldn't exclude anyone who seeks understanding...) which, as a condition of membership, involved an interactive real time on-line diagnosis (designed by Aspies for Aspies; let's not be dictated to by people who don't begin to understand the benefits of autism?) based on sound procedural rules, which, through use of an iterative database programme, would improve the understanding of what we are really about. If it worked out, we'd be in a position to really campaign for our rights, and to dictate to the "experts" that their NT bias is not the ultimate key...

Can it be done? Yes, I'm sure of it (this is what I've been researching in recent months, in case anyone's been wondering at my quasi-absence) or at least, I'm sure of the underlying theory; what I can't do is the computer stuff, the database, the interaction...So how about it you computer wizzes? Think about how it could be set up, and taken to fruition; if I just concentrate on the theoretic basis, it's going to involve months of work (and I do have other things to consider, like earning a crust) and if I have to master the programming, then it may not be done in my life time. Are there enough of you out there who understand what I'm aiming for?

And as for a quiz alex? Well why not! I don't see why a cut down version couldn't be developed as a "taster"; all that's required is some good will from Aspies, and a willingness to resist the ill-will that currently drives debates on so many sites.

Nearly forgot to mention; I'll be backing the above claims with solid research, hopefully in a few weeks. I'm currently trying to track down some loose ends, which are proving elusive from my lonely demesne; I'd dearly love to hear from willing collaberators who have access to a good college library, or who are paid-up members of the Encyclopaedia Brittannica, or it's ilk?

Lastly, congratulations to duncvis on his elevation, and to TAFKASH; whicked!



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06 Apr 2005, 3:16 am

gwynfryn wrote:
Regrettably, there's no clear definition, and there are so many people, like Vetivert, for example, who pretend to be reasonable, but who are uniformly devious, and who are resolutely anti-Aspie...


goodness! is that really me? and all this time i never knew...

just for the record (and just because i can actually be bothered right at this moment), i believe that what gwyn is talking about is my constant questioning of methods, rather than of intent, on here and on other boards. suffice it to say that this is in an attempt to ensure that the projects actually succeed, rather than falling at the first hurdle. well, it is from my point of view, anyway. i'm sorry if others read it differently. dialogues rather than statements might be useful here, i feel. oh, and it's probably also because i tend not to join in with all the NT-bashing, as i can't see how that benefits anybody - as i've said before, the world is set up the way it is, and so we have to change it, but shouting and being offensive is unlikely to work in the long term. but let's not get into that particular discussion again...

oh, and it's good to see you back, gwyn, btw.

TAFKASH - i'm in schtook, cos i'm not a computer buff (the spawn of satan, they are), so i'm probably not a proper aspie anyway, by the looks of things ;) . but then, the dichotomy between those aspies who never say anything and those who never shut up might throw people into confusion, n'est ce pas? dear me...

and a question - why do so many people have a propblem with the Meyer criteria? a genuine question, as i'd like to know.