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Rhiannon0828
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11 Feb 2012, 10:30 am

Moog wrote:

The Buddhists call that Dukkha

Quote:

Monks, any desire & passion with regard to craving for forms is a defilement of the mind. Any desire & passion with regard to craving for sounds... craving for aromas... craving for flavors... craving for tactile sensations... craving for ideas is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing.

This was really interesting to read, Moog. I don't know very much about Buddism, but I'm always fascinated by the philosophies of other religions. I was also interested in how different this is from the philosophy of my religion. As a pagan, I very much see the Goddess as my "mother" and the Earth as her physical body. For me to be closer to her, one of my favorite things to do is to wait for a particularly lovely day, pack a lunch of maybe some bread, meat, and fruit of some kind, some water and a bottle of wine, and go to the park or nature sanctuary. I go out into a big open field, or maybe deep in the woods, and just take everything in. I mean, really absorb it; the play of the light, the sound of the wind and the birds, the colors, the scents, the activities of the animals and insects. How warm the sun is and how blue the sky and the amazing range of greens and golds of the trees and grass--and this must be the sweetest, juciest apple ever grown!-- and I feel like I am wrapped up in the arms of my mother and all is right with the world. I am very much a sensualist and an aesthete, and I think that a lot of it has to do with my view of Goddess/God and the world. The scent of a fragrant rose can bring me to tears, so amazing is its beauty.

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meems
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11 Feb 2012, 2:20 pm

Shrox, several things you said in this thread actually struck me as deeply profound and insightful, and you used so few words to say those things. I don't know what Quakers are... or Friend of Jesus? I have never heard of that and I'm really unfamiliar with most of Christianity but I had to say this because I don't usually get much out of listening to or reading people talking about faith/spirituality/religion etc. I don't even know what I want to ask you. Actually I feel creepy because I'm just trying to think of a legitimate question that would get you to talk more about your take on... any number of things, and how your faith has shaped your views.

I guess this isn't the thread for me to probe you about your faith, I have been around Judaism and Islam in my family and stuff and found some really beautiful things in those cultures and maybe even the faith, not that I have faith. This thread made me sort of uneasy about saying I'm an atheist or talking about it, I didn't know so many people felt alienated by us. It's one of the things I like about WP, not the hateful stuff but the open expression of so many people with no religious belief or faith. I've felt really alienated throughout my life by people acting really hostile if I acknowledge that I don't have faith and I don't believe in a god, and people find out and then make comments like "Oh yeah but Beth thinks that's stupid because there is no god." sarcastically.

It makes socializing kind of difficult because when someone says something indicating a belief in that kind of thing I instantly feel like I have to find a way to not reveal that I'm an atheist but not be dishonest or pretend to agree, until I have a better idea of how they might react, because some people find out and act like I've just told them I believe there is a race of lizard people attempting to take over the auto-industry, or something... implausible and outlandish.

SO ANYWAY I have questions and not questions aimed at proving anything or disproving anything, just a lot of curiosity... and if it's cool with people in this thread, I'd like to pose some here. If that's not OK then I can send a PM, and if that's weird or unwelcome I won't do that either.

Yay?

Nay?

shrox
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11 Feb 2012, 3:01 pm

meems wrote:

Friend is correct. PM or post me if you wish, although if you found something of interest, maybe others will if we posted in the thread.

I just look at the way Jesus says to be and act, and look at how many 'christians' and groups are and act. I think then it's easy to tell who has the right idea.

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man." – Thomas Jefferson, 1777

meems
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11 Feb 2012, 4:32 pm

I first want to clarify because I might've misread but do you not believe those without faith will be in one way or another excluded from an afterlife?

I've honestly never cracked open a Bible, and I'm pretty sure I'm going to sound ridiculously ignorant but... are there any select verses that you favor or find particularly inspiring... or... is it offensive to ask about favorite verses?

Yikes. Now I'm having trouble conveying thoughts to words, I have a good idea of what I am curious about but I don't know how to break it down into questions exactly

USMCnBNSFdude
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11 Feb 2012, 4:49 pm

meems wrote:

is it offensive to ask about favorite verses?

I don't see any logical reason for it to be offensive...

shrox
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12 Feb 2012, 2:15 pm

meems wrote:

I wouldn't say I have any favorite verses. Over the millennia there have been many translations, changes and even some errors in meaning have crept in. I have been looking at the Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest known copy of the Old and New Testament, it's from around 350 A.D. or so.

http://codexsinaiticus.org

From their website-"Codex Sinaiticus, a manuscript of the Christian Bible written in the middle of the fourth century, contains the earliest complete copy of the Christian New Testament. The hand-written text is in Greek. The New Testament appears in the original vernacular language (koine) and the Old Testament in the version, known as the Septuagint, that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians."

Although I do find myself thinking of this one when I hear politicians speak...
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited-washed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful on the outside, but are within full of corruption, and of all uncleanliness."

On thing to remember is that mortal ways just don't apply to God, Jesus or The Kingdom, Heaven, Paradise etc. An example:

A group called that Sadducees tried to trick Jesus with this question:
“Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. “Last of all, the woman died. “In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her.”

But Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. “But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: ‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. - Matthew 22:25

I guess the bolded part is important to me. By the way, I just remember the words, not their 'verses and numbers" that was added much later It's not in the Codex Sinaiticus

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12 Feb 2012, 8:03 pm

Dear Shrox, Great discussion, I like this! This is what I hoped this thread would be!

Oh, um, I stole your mouse and made an avatar out of him. Um.

Hope you don't mind?

Sylkat. :roll:

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29 Feb 2012, 7:20 pm

A subject that concerns me;destruction of religious art. Specifically, Buddhist art. The justification is that these items cause or encourage idolatry, but if these ' Buddha' statues are in a museum, no one is worshipping them,, just admiring the artistry. If the prevailing culture/religion feels such antipathy towards art from another religion, what should they do instead of destroying them?

Sylkat

Kyra71
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29 Feb 2012, 7:42 pm

I'm agnostic, but my belief in God is very important to me. All my life, people have hurt me, and betrayed me, and failed me... But the one thing that gives me the courage to keep going is my belief that God loves me, even if no one else does.

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01 Mar 2012, 12:45 am

I believe in God, and I used to be very religious (Roman Catholic), but I'm not what anyone could consider a practicing Catholic now.

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Sylkat
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01 Mar 2012, 1:27 am

Seems to me that someone can know God without necessarily ' belonging' to a structured organization.
There are many paths to the top of the mountain, are there not many paths to God?

Sylkat

goodwitchy
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01 Mar 2012, 1:29 am

Sylkat wrote:

Seems to me that someone can know God without necessarily ' belonging' to a structured organization.
There are many paths to the top of the mountain, are there not many paths to God?

Sylkat

Very true

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01 Mar 2012, 9:10 am

Sylkat,

In relation to what you posted, that's part of why I have a problem with religion...that almost every religion tells its believers: " We have the correct answer, and you must only believe in our God. Everyone else is wrong". No offense to anyone, but I think that perspective is ignorant.

Other major issues with religion for me is how it's used to manipulate the masses politically, and used to justify political actions and wars.

There's more, but I'll stop here

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Bun
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01 Mar 2012, 9:13 am

USMCnBNSFdude wrote:

meems wrote:

is it offensive to ask about favorite verses?

I don't see any logical reason for it to be offensive...

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

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shrox
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01 Mar 2012, 12:01 pm

Bun wrote:

USMCnBNSFdude wrote:

meems wrote:

is it offensive to ask about favorite verses?

I don't see any logical reason for it to be offensive...

1 Corinthians 13! Yeah!

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03 Mar 2012, 3:23 pm

Seems to me that when a 'Religious Organization' contradicts the teachings of its founder, the organization should no longer claim to represent that person or god or book. Specifically, 3 large , old, powerful and well-known organizations, but in principle, any or all churches or mosques or temples.

Sylkat

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