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marshall
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18 Apr 2012, 1:10 pm

TM wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
TM wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
What makes you think people always have the option to just up and go somewhere else? also it's screwed up to manipulate, step on and exploit people for ones own benefit at the expense of others. Don't try and act like that sort of behavior is justified, it's the ones doing that in the wrong not those who end up being treated that way by such people. Go ahead and think I'm jealous all you want but jealous of what? I'm perfectly happy with the means to get by and ability to do activities I enjoy like going to concerts...I have an issue with the way society is set up, and the hierarchy based on ones level of income or lack thereof...I think you just wish I was jealous.


Because you always have the option, you elect not to take it because subconsciously you make a decision that the the bird in your hand is better than the 5 on the roof. There are always choices and pretending there aren't is assuming a victim role. As for exploiting people for their own benefit, everyone does on some level.


Who ever said anything about there not being any choices? all I said was not everyone has the option to up and get out of the negative situations they find themselves in...Also don't assume everyone exploits people for their own gain at their expense. I don't most people might but I don't really care that does not change how i feel about it.


Choice and option are synonyms.


I don't know if people with your attitude are trolls or what. The world would probably be a better place if less people had the warped perspective you have. I mean, you're typing on a f***ing computer so go count your damn blessings that you weren't born in a shanty trash heap in India. No, not everyone born in this world has the same f***ing "options". Most people try their best to deal with the hand they're dealt. One does not have to be "jealous" to disagree with what they perceive as an unjust world. Most people do not look to be a "burden" on others. Most are just trying to get by as best they can. Don't be looking down on people and calling them "parasites" unless you would like to be referred as one.


It's more a matter of people on WP being horrid at realizing "hmm, every post so far was in context X, so assuming that the opinion is the same in context Z which is a completely different context would be stupid of me". It's kind of how in the feminism threads when discussing affirmative action in western world countries, someone needs to bring up women being tortured in sub-Saharan Africa or The Middle East.

It's not about having the same options, but having options. Even someone born in a thrash heap in India or a Favela in Brasil has options, not the same options as someone born into a family fortune of a few hundred million but they do have options.

The definition of parasite is "Parasitism is a type of non mutual relationship between organisms of different species where one organism, the parasite, benefits at the expense of the other, the host." so someone that gains at the expense of others without offering anything in return could be accurately described as a parasite. It's a matter of being pragmatic about it as opposed to overly concerned with peoples feelings.


If you want to go by that broad definition then everyone is a parasite. Every dependent child is a parasite upon their parents. There is no man or women on this earth who has never relied on someone else without giving the exact same in return. But if you're going to be scientific about it, parasites are biological organisms that have specifically evolved to rely on a host for nourishment. Human beings are social creatures that tend to work together, even if that sometimes means taking care of the young/old/weak/sick/disabled etc... who may not have the capacity to contribute as much as more able members of society. That does not mean those people are biological "parasites".

Applying the word "parasite" to human beings appears to be nothing more than a cruel insult since it isn't a scientifically accurate description of any human being. It's a hateful word used to dehumanize groups of people, nothing more. Lets see... it was a word commonly used by European anti-semites, leading up to the Holocaust. It was used in Stalinist Russia to describe certain "enemies" who were then killed by the millions. It was used by Hutu militants in Rawanda to describe Tutsis before slaughtering close to a million of them. Sounds more like hate speech to me. It shouldn't be used to describe any class of human beings, rich or poor.



Last edited by marshall on 18 Apr 2012, 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vexcalibur
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18 Apr 2012, 1:17 pm

It is tiresome that people insist on the utter delusion that everything they got they did it out of themselves and only themselves and never got any kind of help nor were lucky.

It is a terrible delusion, completely not based on logic nor is there any empirical example of anyone actually getting close to such thing.

Truth is if you are 0 years old or older, you have already been helped a lot.

It is particularly a disgrace when somebody who made their profits thanks to modern technology to say such thing. That computer you use in your work is the product of (and I mean it) at least hundreds of work from people in many different areas.


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Vigilans
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18 Apr 2012, 1:24 pm

Uhh no actually that computer is the product of one person's work- Jesus


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ruveyn
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18 Apr 2012, 1:29 pm

Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn



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18 Apr 2012, 1:32 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn


wealthy does not = better person, I think it's that mentality that pisses people off...thinking ones economic status determines if they are a better or worse person and all just seems pretty stupid if you ask me.


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marshall
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18 Apr 2012, 1:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn


I'd agree the ones that vote for Republicans are pretty stupid.



snapcap
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18 Apr 2012, 1:48 pm

marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn


I'd agree the ones that vote for Republicans are pretty stupid.


The one's that vote for Democrats because they think they are better than the Repub. are just as bad.


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18 Apr 2012, 1:54 pm

My sister tells me that if I am so smart why don't I have a million dollars?



marshall
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18 Apr 2012, 2:03 pm

snapcap wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn


I'd agree the ones that vote for Republicans are pretty stupid.


The one's that vote for Democrats because they think they are better than the Repub. are just as bad.


I no longer believe the mantra that both parties are "equally bad". The Repubs are definitely pushing a harder and harder ideological line and moving the center farther and farther right. It's so pathetic that the "center" in congress is now way to the right of true public opinion. I blame apathetic progressives for this. Conservatives have the edge because they have much more partisan loyalty and will vote for Mittens even if they would prefer someone even farther right, such is their hatred of Obama. Progressives need to adapt a more pragmatic attitude or things will get much much worse.



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18 Apr 2012, 2:12 pm

marshall wrote:
snapcap wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn


I'd agree the ones that vote for Republicans are pretty stupid.


The one's that vote for Democrats because they think they are better than the Repub. are just as bad.


I no longer believe the mantra that both parties are "equally bad". The Repubs are definitely pushing a harder and harder ideological line and moving the center farther and farther right. It's so pathetic that the "center" in congress is now way to the right of true public opinion. I blame apathetic progressives for this. Conservatives have the edge because they have much more partisan loyalty and will vote for Mittens even if they would prefer someone even farther right, such is their hatred of Obama. Progressives need to adapt a more pragmatic attitude or things will get much much worse.


Of course the democrats want to be seen as better than the republicans......I still think both the democrats and republicans are pretty much just as bad.


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18 Apr 2012, 2:35 pm

TM wrote:
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
TM wrote:
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Fact is, social mobility towards success, but also towards failure, is not a matter of working for, it's a matter of being set up for. That's my main issue.


In what way is it about being set up for it?


Statistically speaking, being born poor usually means dying not much richer.
For most families, it takes several generations to move from low-skilled labour to truly being part of the 'establishment'.
They don't have the means for Ivy League schools, meaning another generation - therefore another life - is spent making the money to do that.

Basically, you can make a fairly accurate prediction of current status in society for most people born twenty or thirty years ago, then look them up and confirm that.


What you have to consider is that the rich people now, did the same thing back when they were broke. Most rich families have that one member that went from broke to rich and since then that money has compounded making them more money. It's a time game more than anything. We can argue back and forth, but from my perspective people are not successful because they do not work to be successful. They may want to be rich and whatnot, but they do not put in the work.




Turns out that the simple but unspoken fact of that matter is that ya can't get rich by working for somebody else! You have to own PROPERTY and/or CAPITAL. If you are born and raised without either one and can't manage to discover an opportunity to get your hands on at least 1 of those 2 things, you'll never become wealthy. I'm tired of conservatives trying desperately to argue that the Land of Opportunity myth is anything more than pipe dream for most people. Those who have wealth obviously want to keep what they have, and in order to do that they must actively work to prevent others from getting wealthy. That's how how capitalism works. After all, it is not enough to succeed, others must fail. :wink:



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18 Apr 2012, 2:43 pm

If we stick with the 2 party system we will be in hell forever.



ruveyn
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18 Apr 2012, 3:58 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn


wealthy does not = better person, I think it's that mentality that pisses people off...thinking ones economic status determines if they are a better or worse person and all just seems pretty stupid if you ask me.


It is true that wealthy does not equal better. But many of the better people (people who are smart and energetic) manage to either get rich or make a good living. The Proles of the industrial unions and the unskilled labor pool tend to drag their knuckles when they way.

Give them beer and t.v. an d they are happy.

ruyven



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18 Apr 2012, 4:01 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Why is there such an urge to hate the Better People in our society?

Most of the Proles are dull and stupid.

ruveyn


wealthy does not = better person, I think it's that mentality that pisses people off...thinking ones economic status determines if they are a better or worse person and all just seems pretty stupid if you ask me.


It is true that wealthy does not equal better. But many of the better people (people who are smart and energetic) manage to either get rich or make a good living. The Proles of the industrial unions and the unskilled labor pool tend to drag their knuckles when they way.

Give them beer and t.v. an d they are happy.

ruyven


give capitalists money and they are happy.......regardless of anything else going on.


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androbot2084
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18 Apr 2012, 4:05 pm

Let's give Bill Gates a tax break so the economy can be stimulated.



ruveyn
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18 Apr 2012, 4:08 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

give capitalists money and they are happy.......regardless of anything else going on.


Entrepreneurs tend to be pro-active and busy types. They just like doing stuff and getting stuff done. You typical industrial Prole is a knuckle dragger and a couch potato.

ruveyn