Kraichgauer wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Well, the United Methodist Church and the Presbyterian Church USA officially economically "divested from" (boycotted) Israel, and called for their followers to do the same. You're not going to tell me that had nothing to do with those churches not believing the nation of Israel is still under God's protection and blessing, are you? In fact, both those churches deny any biblical significance to modern Israel, even though its restoration was prophesied and God's land grant to Israel was unconditional.
Amos 9:14-15
Quote:
14 “and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.
They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”
says the LORD your God.
Those church bodies chose to take those actions - I believe - out of
sympathy for the humanitarian plight of the Palestinian people. But I seriously doubt that Antisemitism played any sort of role in that decision. The same would apply to the other major Lutheran body, The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (I'm Missouri Synod, myself) who had taken a similar stance toward Israel, but are hardly a bunch of Jew haters.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
"Sympathy" for evil makes evil sympathizers. The Palestinians' "plight" is that they continually set off bombs in, and launch rockets into, the Jewish-populated parts of Israel, and call daily for Jewish death and for Israel to be utterly destroyed.
Well, God knows the Church leaders' hearts. I only know their actions,
by which Jesus said we would know whether people are good or evil.
Quote:
15 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
(From Matt 7)
Because they come in sheep's clothing, their appearance -- their outward identities -- speak
against the idea that they are evil. Therefore, it is
only their works that reveal who they really are. A good example of these wolves in sheep's clothing would be The Catholic Church in the first part of the twentieth century, who turned a blind eye during the Holocaust.
I notice you keep referring to "a bunch of Jew haters" and "a hot-bed of anti-Semitism", as if anti-Semitism is always incredibly overt, bold, and obvious. There is no reason it would always be so. The blind-eye turning and economic divestment are hatred by
inaction, or ceasing of action, and so are more subtle than the Nazi soldiers' outlets of their anti-Semitism.
The leadership in the Christian Church at large (though there are exceptions) shows through their funding actions that they adore the Palestinians and their cause to persecute, murder, and displace the Jews in Israel, while these Church leaders give, when anything, only lip service to the Jews.
Gen 12:2-3:
Quote:
2 “I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.”
I am a Christian who is very glad to be one, and to talk about biblical Christianity favorably. But I know and will admit that there is
plenty of anti-Semitism in the Christian Church, just like there is anywhere else in the world. Why? Because most of the Church,
like the world, stays away from serious, in-depth Bible study, preferring instead feel-good, superficial sermons based more on emotionalism than truth.
And again, this idea that most evil is overt is just not biblically accurate:
2 Cor 11:13-15:
Quote:
13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
It is not a coincidence that Jesus called the religious leaders of His day "of your father the devil", and backed that claim up with saying that is because they lie, and in the capacity of being liars they become Satan's followers, thusly:
John 8:44:
Quote:
“You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”
As regards the subtlest of anti-Semitism, in Matthew 25, Jesus refers to
His own harsh judgment against and punishment of passive disservice by Gentiles to Jews who receive their Messiah during the Tribulation period:
Quote:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations [the word meaning Gentiles] will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Acts of terrorism are committed against Israel by fanatics who are of Palestinian ethnicity, but it's completely wrong to make all Palestinians guilty for these acts. The Palestinian people are not our enemies, and are not Israel's enemies.
And in regard to the "Tribulation" - we Lutherans and other Mainline Protestants believe in a single resurrection of the dead, and one final judgement, but not in any rapture or in any millenialistic theology. Rather, we believe that the "Thousand Years" is the here and now - an indeterminate period of time between Christ's resurrection and his second coming. And the Kingdom Of God during this "Thousand Years" is to be found among true believers.
11 Apr 2012, 9:58 am
