How Should Liberals Vote in the 2012 U.S. Pres. Election?

Post Reply New Topic

Socially, I lean pretty liberal: I am a strong civil libertarian and support Keynesian economic policies, a strong social-welfare safety net, and a market-based economy that works for everyone. I feel that President Barack Obama has not done enough to support this kind of "classical" (not as in Hayek or Von Mises) liberalism. Democrats usually rely on scare tactics by hinting that the country will be so much worse with Republicans in power. Sorry, I don't buy it; as we saw in the 2010 midterm elections with the Tea Party movement, holding politicians accountable to principle does get results. I am not suggesting that the Democratic Party become a rigid, dogmatic, disciplined party that refuses to compromise and work with people who disagree with some of their views, but I am saying that, if Democrats show a consistent pattern of rolling over for the Republicans, why on earth should I bother voting for them when all they'll do is slightly delay the country's drift to the Right?

I don't necessarily want to see the country suddenly elect nothing but Greens (I am not a hardcore environmentalist myself), but perhaps I suppose I really just want more honesty and less corruption in my politicians. I really find it disgusting that Obama is setting much of his reelection campaign on his "Kill List," drone strikes, and other civil-liberties–violating policies because the economy is still sputtering. I'd actually rather see a politician act on changes that will help this country rather than talk about them but then do nothing because it's not in their campaign donors' interest.

Liberals should vote for Obama while tightly pinching their nostrils shut between thumb and forefinger of other hand.

ruveyn

Of the major third parties, your only choice is the Greens. Judging from Master_Pedant's avatar he seems to like the Justice Party which sounds to me like the Green Party without as aggressive a stance on environmental issues. I personally don't think that left-leaning Americans should continue voting Democrat. If you keep doing that then nothing will change. Sure, the Democrats might be slightly more tolerable than the Republicans, but really not that much (Republican rhetoric is disgusting, but they don't normally act quite as badly once in power). I think it would be worth putting up with the Republicans for a little while if it meant that you managed to get a viable third party to develop.

Vote for Obama

2012

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CflI0miqAhA[/youtube]

I don't see how anybody in good faith could vote for Mitt Romney or Barack Obama. They're essentially the same, corporatist warmongers who will tramp all over civil liberties.

Former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson is the Libertarian nominee, Jill Stein who ran against Mitt Romney is Massachusetts in 2002 is likely to be the Green Party nominee, and former congressman Virgil Goode is the Constitution Party nominee.

Gary Johnson is polling about 8% head to head with Romney and Obama. I doubt that'll translate to actual votes but he's probably the strongest 3rd party candidate since Ralph Nader in 2000 and could have an effect on the race.

The fact that their candidate for President is the former mayor of a major city is pretty big in adding some "credibility" to the run.

Personally I find Jill Stein, the likely Green Party candidate, to be quite impressive. She seems very intelligent and well spoken. Mind you, she doesn't have any experience governing.

I wish Jill Stein's website would be more specific on her stances on issues. I think that part of the website is still under construction.

As for me I'm leaning to Gary Johnson, and yet in the past I've voted for Ralph Nader. So I'm still curious about the Greens.

I just wouldn't vote. There's no point to it, being that he's doing everything to destroy our civil rights as much as Bush did. The Republicans and Democrats are pretty much in lockstep when it comes to things that really matter, like supporting the NSA's extra-judicial powers in which the white house can order killings that surpass due process. Though the mainstream media didn't report at all on it, both parties were unanimous in passing the 2012 NDAA bill which, through a legalese loophole, gives the president the authority to use troops, in a state of emergency, to detain American citizens. If you watch any mainstream media, just turn it off, because they have no credibility to speak of.

Well I would suggest at least voting 3rd Party even if it's just a means to express dislike of the establishment. If we are really frustrated with the 2 Parties we should try to support opposition to them instead of just staying home.

This is why the United States needs a proportional voting system, so that a vote for a third party is not a wasted vote. Until the voting system is changed, a mathematical principle called Duverger's law ensures that it will be almost impossible for an alternative candidate to gain momentum.

Here is a video explaining the problems with US-style voting systems:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo&feature=plcp[/youtube]

Here is a video explaining a specific proportional voting system, called MMP:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU[/youtube]

The reason it uses New Zealand animals is that it is the system that we adopted. The result was a weakening of our previous two-party monopoly, and the creation of a more interesting political spectrum.

I'm not sure why Rocky Anderson didn't run for the Green Party nomination. Starting your own party is extremely hard and the Green Party have ballot access in most states. He'll only be on the ballot in couple states probably.

The media however doesn't really care about credibility when it comes to 3rd party candidates or even candidates that don't fit their mold in the primaries of the major parties. If they could of ignored Ron Paul they would of and they did completely ignore very qualified candidates in former governor Gary Johnson and former governor Buddy Roemer meanwhile they had a fricking pizza CEO that sang and groped women be the front runner for a while.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X3QRSIXgns[/youtube]

They of course should vote for Obama.

Romney would get to appoint two far righties to the SC. That would turn 5-4 decisions into 7-2. If you think progressives are losing hard now in the SC, just wait. You could argue about and pass progressive legislation for a generation and the court would be naturally inclined to tear it to shreds. Romney would be gone in a few years but he'd leave behind a corporatist utopia via the SC.

Here is Robert Unger, who is President Obama's former professor, taking down Obama. Watch!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnf4k8EaL7M[/youtube]

Good post and interesting person to listen to. Especially for me because I'm not really very Left leaning in my politics.

However, for me listening to this I feel like I'm listening to the REAL progressive view which is interesting.

I hang out at a used book store where many people declare themselves Progressive. They are frustrated and turning toward Jill Stein and the Green Party. This guy reminds me a lot of their grievances.