Why is it that usually republicans do not want pot legal?

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Delphiki
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04 Jul 2012, 10:16 am

Why is it that usually republicans do not want to legalize marijuana?

A lot of the time republicans say how we need to have a smaller government, we don't want a nanny government, Then why is it that most of the time republicans do not want marijuana legalized? We are letting the governement tell us that something, that is less harmful than alcohol or tobacco, should be illegal. It needlessly puts many people in jail. If it was taxed it would give the gov't billions of dollars.

Gateway drug!! ! False. Many studies have proved that invalid.
War on drugs!! ! Let's needlessly throw a bunch of people in jail.
Image

I found a recent one!! ! :D
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/recor ... juana.aspx


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Last edited by Delphiki on 05 Jul 2012, 6:19 pm, edited 6 times in total.

zacb
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04 Jul 2012, 10:32 am

First of all, the republican party had sold out it's core values along time ago. (Of course there are a few exceptions, but they are the exceptions and not the rule).

Also, the religious right and corporations have a strong stranglehold on them. Would you want to loose money from companies , even if they use the arm of the state to ban a substance that would harm profits (Phizer, Merck, Bayer, etc.). Or would you want to loose a large base of the party? I did not think so.


Also, like I mentioned in a post before, people tend to have double standards. Like the mosque at ground zero, people don't want it in their back yard, but if the zoning board blocks a church, they would raise hell.


And if you look at the history of the Republican party, tyranny is the rule and not the exception. Lincoln locked up journalist who did not go along with Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and him trying to regulate people out of business, and in more recent time Bush and "Compassionate Conservatism". Most of the time they actually followed through with their rhetoric is when they were the minority party, see 40's (Robert Taft), 60's (Goldwater), and 80's (Reagan).

It should also be noted that not all Republicans are conservatives or libertarians. It is a big tent party, and has a lot of baggage, from the Progressive era, Prohibitionist era, Old Right Era,Cold War era, Regan Era, Christian Right era, and Bush era. So that is also a factor.



mentallyskilled
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04 Jul 2012, 11:00 am

our governments "special"



Awesomelyglorious
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04 Jul 2012, 1:40 pm

I don't think zacb's notion is the real reason. I think it really has to do with the the kinds of people the modern republican party is trying to appeal to. The republican party is in some ways aiming to attract very conventional people, so if you look, a lot of what the Republicans are pushing is part of some version of what is conventional, which includes enterprise, American dominance and exceptionalism, religion, and this "clean-cut" life. (It's radicalized somewhat recently with some notion of the way of life going away and having to "save America" which is driving some degree of madness)

I don't think this is really very much driven by the "Republicans are tyrannical thesis" though, as I don't think that the political groups have a solid culture so much as a response to their potential voters. I mean, the Republicans took over from the Whigs, who were also in many ways the more conventional party.(They liked the British, they liked the bankers and moneyed interests, they wanted a government strong enough to keep order, and I think a greater number of them had ties to loyalists) Taking back the South probably didn't help these issues either, as it involved allying with the conservative elements of the south.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Jul 2012, 1:41 pm

Because pot smells badly.



04 Jul 2012, 1:49 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I don't think zacb's notion is the real reason. I think it really has to do with the the kinds of people the modern republican party is trying to appeal to. The republican party is in some ways aiming to attract very conventional people, so if you look, a lot of what the Republicans are pushing is part of some version of what is conventional, which includes enterprise, American dominance and exceptionalism, religion, and this "clean-cut" life. (It's radicalized somewhat recently with some notion of the way of life going away and having to "save America" which is driving some degree of madness)

I don't think this is really very much driven by the "Republicans are tyrannical thesis" though, as I don't think that the political groups have a solid culture so much as a response to their potential voters. I mean, the Republicans took over from the Whigs, who were also in many ways the more conventional party.(They liked the British, they liked the bankers and moneyed interests, they wanted a government strong enough to keep order, and I think a greater number of them had ties to loyalists) Taking back the South probably didn't help these issues either, as it involved allying with the conservative elements of the south.


I agree with you, but you also have to keep in mind that certain government employees(law enforcement)livelyhoods depend on the drug war. They fear that legalization of pot will ultimately result in the repealing of the Controlled Substances Act and an the disbanding of the DEA. If the drug war ended, thousands of LEOs would be unemployed. Both political parties in the US cater to certain interest groups. Law enforcement is an interest group that allies itself with republicans since they are viewed as the conservative party. I honestly think that Cops see their job as not just enforcing the law, but enforcing social norms.



VIDEODROME
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04 Jul 2012, 1:50 pm

In a twisted way is this an extension of the Healthcare debate? Basically seeing marijuana as a "gateway" to harder drugs and eventually these users will become a healthcare burden on society?

Some of this concern might be valid. However, I wonder which is more costly between potential drug addicts being a healthcare burden on society or the policy of drug prohibition and the drug war. (Nevermind the double standard of alcohol being legal :wink: )



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Jul 2012, 1:53 pm

Now Obama is hinting he will go easier on pot offenders if he gets reelected president. Lesser sentences for pot possession if any at all.



Delphiki
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04 Jul 2012, 1:54 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
In a twisted way is this an extension of the Healthcare debate? Basically seeing marijuana as a "gateway" to harder drugs and eventually these users will become a healthcare burden on society?

Some of this concern might be valid. However, I wonder which is more costly between potential drug addicts being a healthcare burden on society or the policy of drug prohibition and the drug war. (Nevermind the double standard of alcohol being legal :wink: )
I guess it could be, but I was not thinking of this thread in those terms.


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Delphiki
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04 Jul 2012, 1:56 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Now Obama is hinting he will go easier on pot offenders if he gets reelected president. Lesser sentences for pot possession if any at all.
Are you saying that like it is a bad thing? Aghogday said that he thought something similar to that could be obama's secret weapon.

and...forgot what else I wanted to put.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Jul 2012, 1:58 pm

Delphiki wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Now Obama is hinting he will go easier on pot offenders if he gets reelected president. Lesser sentences for pot possession if any at all.
Are you saying that like it is a bad thing? Aghogday said that he thought something similar to that could be obama's secret weapon.

and...forgot what else I wanted to put.

It's only bad to me because I hate the way it smells when people smoke it. Fundamentally, it's no worse than alcohol and that's legal for people over the age of 21. So, why not make pot legal for them as well so long as it's not smoked around people. Just make the same regulations there are for cigarette smoking.



Delphiki
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04 Jul 2012, 1:59 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Delphiki wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Now Obama is hinting he will go easier on pot offenders if he gets reelected president. Lesser sentences for pot possession if any at all.
Are you saying that like it is a bad thing? Aghogday said that he thought something similar to that could be obama's secret weapon.

and...forgot what else I wanted to put.

It's only bad to me because I hate the way it smells when people smoke it. Fundamentally, it's no worse than alcohol and that's legal for people over the age of 21. So, why not make pot legal for them as well so long as it's not smoked around people. Just make the same regulations there are for cigarette smoking.
Pretty much my thoughts on it


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04 Jul 2012, 2:04 pm

Delphiki wrote:
VIDEODROME wrote:
In a twisted way is this an extension of the Healthcare debate? Basically seeing marijuana as a "gateway" to harder drugs and eventually these users will become a healthcare burden on society?

Some of this concern might be valid. However, I wonder which is more costly between potential drug addicts being a healthcare burden on society or the policy of drug prohibition and the drug war. (Nevermind the double standard of alcohol being legal :wink: )
I guess it could be, but I was not thinking of this thread in those terms.


Actually, I want to be clear that's not what I would agree with. I do think Drug Prohibition is much more costly then treatment and rehab.



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04 Jul 2012, 2:05 pm

They are victims of misinformation campaigns. Like many things the Republicans stand for, their position on pot is extremely contradictory. Obama is not that much better, really. I have seen an interview with him where he was presented with the question on marijuana prohibition by a member of law enforcement; Obama pretty much just repeated the typical talking points that have been circulating for decades, albeit in a glib manner


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Xenu
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04 Jul 2012, 2:06 pm

Stop making generalizations. Social Conservatives don't want Marijuana legalized, yet the average not ret*d Republican has no issue with it. Personally I'm a Libertarian so I'm in favor of it being legalized but I don't like when people make uninformed generalizations.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Jul 2012, 2:19 pm

Vigilans wrote:
They are victims of misinformation campaigns. Like many things the Republicans stand for, their position on pot is extremely contradictory. Obama is not that much better, really. I have seen an interview with him where he was presented with the question on marijuana prohibition by a member of law enforcement; Obama pretty much just repeated the typical talking points that have been circulating for decades, albeit in a glib manner

It's because politicians have all these constituents to honor. Law enforcement, for the most part, demands the allegiance of the supreme commander of the executive branch. So Obama and all the others are going to consider them first. Then, there's a growing block of people who want to see pot legalized and their relatives or themselves freed for pot related offenses. These people come in second to law enforcement, so Obama and certain others, depending on the party, will somewhat cater to them for votes but the ones who will dictate the policy are members of the law enforcement community, not the growing block of people who want to see pot legalized.
If you can get law enforcement on the side of the ones who want to make pot legal, it's a done deal but police have arrested too many druggies over the years and judges have put too many of them away in jail to make that likely. They can't, suddenly, declare all that was wrong. Even if they are starting to feel the pot sentences are too strict and hefty, what can they say to all those people they already sentenced?