Understanding Feminism (Women: Your opinions)

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minervx
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11 Jul 2012, 10:24 pm

I'm a man. And I've talked to feminists who have disagreed with my views and even called me sexist, while I was receptive, polite and trying to be understanding the whole time. Maybe my views are correct, but I do suspect the views of women as a whole (compared to women who devote a lot of time and thought into feminism) may have somewhat different views.

I do recognize that women were second class citizens for most of history and even now movies/literatures too often portray women as mainly sex objects.

There are many women I know who aren't really vocal on feminism, not that they oppose it, but it's not the first thing on their mind. I suspect the majority women generally support feminism but it is not on their mind 24/7.

Many women (not most) in my opinion, in my view, actually have no problem with following gender roles (not that all women should be expected to).

There are married couples I know that strictly follow gender roles and are happy together (not that they work for everybody).

There are plenty of women that listen to the radio, watch movies, and television where women are heavily objectified, and they aren't really aware, or they're not really offended enough.

Plenty of women don't see themselves as economically oppressed even though women are paid less on average.

There are plenty of women who still expect men to be dominant. By dominant, I don't mean abusive, loud, bossy, manipulate or constantly jealous. I mean taking initiative, approach women, be the first to call, choose the first date and many expect men to initiate sex.

I'm not trying to generalize both groups as a whole. Many men are superficial though, and that's why sex does sell. Women are too, though maybe not that much, objectify men too. Who wouldn't enjoy seeing a movie star with six pack abs? Hell, some women (not most) won't even talk to a guy if he doesn't look like Brad Pitt.

To me, I think we all have our own lifestyle preferences, and we should live the way we want to without judging or stigmatizing other peoples' lifestyles. We should be free to question both a male-dominated society AND some of the more extreme remarks the more passionate feminists make.

I'm not looking for a response that agrees with my views necessarily, but one that gives me the most insight.

I'm not really looking for comments from disgruntled men who are upset with feminists, who blame them for all of their problems.

But I am curious. I do think that most women don't mind gender roles as long as there is no harsh judgment, expectation or stigma involved.

Women, what is your take on all of this?



YippySkippy
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11 Jul 2012, 11:06 pm

Quote:
But I am curious. I do think that most women don't mind gender roles as long as there is no harsh judgment, expectation or stigma involved.


Whatever role makes someone happy should be accepted.
My problem is when the feminist movement devalues traditional female roles. Feminism should uplift and respect all women - that includes not only those who are career-focused, but also the homemakers and moms.



Descartes
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14 Jul 2012, 2:34 pm

I'm a male feminist, but I'm still going to put forth my opinion.

I think cultural conditioning could explain the phenomena you just described. Before women got the right to vote, many of them were complacent with having little political rights; and even many African-Americans just went along with Jim Crow society.

There are some parts of our culture that are so ingrained in our conscious that we just go along with it without really thinking.


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14 Jul 2012, 5:01 pm

I've always had sensitive feelers as far as objectification and ingrained cultural oppression is concerned. I'm very strongly feminist, although you wouldn't think it. I mainly use it to keep myself from getting caught up in patriarchal bs. No-one listens to me because I'm not speaking from a privileged position, a lot of my opinions violate social norms and most importantly, I suck at being persuasive. I know what I believe and why, though. I'm always critiquing the power structures other people find themselves in, too, but I don't say anything. I've come to the conclusion that the most you can do is look after yourself and help other people get away from patriarchal influences. Life is too short to waste it arguing with people who are intransigently opposed to your viewpoint.


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Vigilans
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14 Jul 2012, 5:29 pm

Understanding Feminism: Women don't poo, and they pee rosewater. You have your answer.


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15 Jul 2012, 11:25 am

IBTMMASC

(In Before The Make Me A Sammich Comments) :P


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autismthinker21
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15 Jul 2012, 7:37 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Understanding Feminism: Women don't poo, and they pee rosewater. You have your answer.


where did you get this idea? they don't poo and they pee rosewater. let me guess you seen a woman going to the bathroom or you ask a woman that. which is a lie to get you to believe they don't go number 2. gosh no wonder why we think women are weird sometimes. and they say men are weird? hmm i should invest on this theory just to make sure this is accurate. problem is women can't really express out their feelings sometimes like men don't know how either.


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15 Jul 2012, 8:34 pm

autismthinker21 wrote:
let me guess you seen a woman going to the bathroom or you ask a woman that. which is a lie to get you to believe they don't go number 2.


Brother, you have been selected to join a very exclusive secret society. Let us welcome you to the Secret Patriarchal Brotherhood of Men Who Spy On Women in Bathrooms. You will be blindfolded and led to a room where you will receive your ceremonial period-drenched robes. You will be required to sacrifice your firstborn child to the God of Conveniently-Placed Bathroom Windows. Now let us say the prayer of Rosewaterhotep.



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15 Jul 2012, 8:44 pm

This one looks intersting. I'll be lurking this topic until I think of something relevant to say (and get some fre time :P)


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autismthinker21
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15 Jul 2012, 8:46 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
autismthinker21 wrote:
let me guess you seen a woman going to the bathroom or you ask a woman that. which is a lie to get you to believe they don't go number 2.


Brother, you have been selected to join a very exclusive secret society. Let us welcome you to the Secret Patriarchal Brotherhood of Men Who Spy On Women in Bathrooms. You will be blindfolded and led to a room where you will receive your ceremonial period-drenched robes. You will be required to sacrifice your firstborn child to the God of Conveniently-Placed Bathroom Windows. Now let us say the prayer of Rosewaterhotep.



what? i don't spy i was talking about viligain's post.


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deltafunction
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15 Jul 2012, 8:59 pm

minervx wrote:
There are plenty of women that listen to the radio, watch movies, and television where women are heavily objectified, and they aren't really aware, or they're not really offended enough.


On this note, has anyone ever watched the tv show Mad Men? It takes place in the 60's, when sexism is rampant, and I LOVE it. The creators are geniuses, I'm sure. They show the struggles of these women trying to make it in a societal structure where they are meant to be mothers and housewives above anything else. Some use their sex appeal to get ahead, some use other measures. And I think the show does parallel life for women today in many respects, sadly. The sexist behaviour of the males in the show does remind me of the present.



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15 Jul 2012, 9:15 pm

autismthinker21 wrote:
HisDivineMajesty wrote:
autismthinker21 wrote:
let me guess you seen a woman going to the bathroom or you ask a woman that. which is a lie to get you to believe they don't go number 2.


Brother, you have been selected to join a very exclusive secret society. Let us welcome you to the Secret Patriarchal Brotherhood of Men Who Spy On Women in Bathrooms. You will be blindfolded and led to a room where you will receive your ceremonial period-drenched robes. You will be required to sacrifice your firstborn child to the God of Conveniently-Placed Bathroom Windows. Now let us say the prayer of Rosewaterhotep.



what? i don't spy i was talking about viligain's post.


:lmao:


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Vigilans
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15 Jul 2012, 9:17 pm

Viligain sounds like some kind of athletic protein shake. I will have to add that to my list of common misspellings of my username :P


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YippySkippy
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15 Jul 2012, 9:50 pm

Viligain - A villain who is doing well, who is gaining ground on the hero.



i_Am_andaJoy
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15 Jul 2012, 10:11 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
But I am curious. I do think that most women don't mind gender roles as long as there is no harsh judgment, expectation or stigma involved.


Whatever role makes someone happy should be accepted.
My problem is when the feminist movement devalues traditional female roles. Feminism should uplift and respect all women - that includes not only those who are career-focused, but also the homemakers and moms.


I agree YippySkippy. That's one of the things I can't stand about some "feminists".

I am sure that SOME feminists are perfectly nice people, blah blah. But I have seen and experienced several that annoy the crap out of me, so I have a negative view of the word. What I can't stand is people who turn everything into a gender or race issue. Does every single feminist do that? No. But the feminists who do do that, and who pout and slurp and whine about privilege when they have never been hungry a day in their life, well, I'd like to slap them in the face.

If someone is doing the exact same job as I am, of COURSE I should be paid the same amount of money.
But, if gender shouldn't be an issue, shut up about it already.
Instead of arguing that it's so unfair that you are a woman or that you are black or white or that you are ugly or fat or NT or AS or disabled or whatever... why not just focus on fixing the actual problem instead of emphasizing a divide that might not even be in someone's mind?

Just advocate that there should be equal pay for all PEOPLE who are doing the same job.


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15 Jul 2012, 10:12 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Viligain - A villain who is doing well, who is gaining ground on the hero.

Nice.


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