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Wolfheart
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13 Jul 2012, 11:33 pm

There's also a number of other reasons to avoid sugar plus it's bad for your teeth.

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Sugar promotes cravings. The more sugar you eat, the more sugar you want. A high sugar meal raises the blood glucose level, which triggers the outpouring of insulin. This excess insulin lingers in the system, triggering a craving for more sugar, thus adding another hill to the roller coaster ride.

Sugar promotes heart disease. When bears are storing up body fat for their long winter hibernation, they consume lots and lots of carbohydrates. When you eat excess carbohydrates, your body turns these sugars into fat. The body stores excesses of most nutrients as a safeguard against starvation. If you eat more carbohydrates than you can burn off, the excess is stored as fats. People who eat too much sugar tend to have higher blood tryglycerides, and this increases the risk of cardiovascular disease.

Excess sugar depresses immunity. Studies have shown that downing 75 to 100 grams of a sugar solution (about 20 teaspoons of sugar, or the amount that is contained in two average 12-ounce sodas) can suppress the body's immune responses. Simple sugars, including glucose, table sugar, fructose, and honey caused a fifty- percent drop in the ability of white blood cells to engulf bacteria.



hyperlexian
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13 Jul 2012, 11:40 pm

most foods are ok in moderation - as long as a person isn't overdoing it then it should be fine. anyway, it is not physically possible to avoid sugar completely. every time you eat a piece of fruit, you are ingesting the sweetest sugar of all: fructose.


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Wolfheart
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13 Jul 2012, 11:44 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
most foods are ok in moderation - as long as a person isn't overdoing it then it should be fine. anyway, it is not physically possible to avoid sugar completely. every time you eat a piece of fruit, you are ingesting the sweetest sugar of all: fructose.


It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.

A handful of sugar is going to cause an insulin spike and an increase in fat far quicker than a bowl of oats.

http://fit-to-hit.org/2012/01/how-sugar ... t-storage/



hyperlexian
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13 Jul 2012, 11:47 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
most foods are ok in moderation - as long as a person isn't overdoing it then it should be fine. anyway, it is not physically possible to avoid sugar completely. every time you eat a piece of fruit, you are ingesting the sweetest sugar of all: fructose.


It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.

A handful of sugar is going to cause an insulin spike and an increase in fat far quicker than a bowl of oats.

http://fit-to-hit.org/2012/01/how-sugar ... t-storage/

i don't think anyone should eat a handful of sugar, which is why i said "in moderation". your brain will not function if you don't get sucrose from somewhere, it's just a matter of choice as to where you obtain it.

fruit is an excellent source of fibre and essential vitamins, plus it is a great natural, portable snack.


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edgewaters
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13 Jul 2012, 11:49 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.


Yeah but Wolf ... you're much closer to perfection than most people (don't take that as an offence, it's a compliment - you're an admirable fellow). Some of us have to expend our willpower on more immediate problems/flaws and don't have so much left over for perfecting our diet by eliminating common foods like fruit and butter.



Wolfheart
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13 Jul 2012, 11:52 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
most foods are ok in moderation - as long as a person isn't overdoing it then it should be fine. anyway, it is not physically possible to avoid sugar completely. every time you eat a piece of fruit, you are ingesting the sweetest sugar of all: fructose.


It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.

A handful of sugar is going to cause an insulin spike and an increase in fat far quicker than a bowl of oats.

http://fit-to-hit.org/2012/01/how-sugar ... t-storage/

i don't think anyone should eat a handful of sugar, which is why i said "in moderation". your brain will not function if you don't get sucrose from somewhere, it's just a matter of choice as to where you obtain it.

fruit is an excellent source of fibre and essential vitamins, plus it is a great natural, portable snack.


I'm not doubting that it is an excellent source of vitamins, however I would rather take pills instead of consuming several servings of fruit throughout the day.



hyperlexian
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13 Jul 2012, 11:53 pm

MyFutureSelfnMe wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
no, i live in edmonton. have you ever lived here?


No but some of my Toronto friends or former friends are from Edmonton.

i don't know those names. but if you have friends in their early 40s from the old punk/alternative crowd i may have known them

(tippy a-go-go, rusty, friendly, arson, nikki, john weed, etc)


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BlueMax
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13 Jul 2012, 11:56 pm

edgewaters wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.


Yeah but Wolf ... you're much closer to perfection than most people (don't take that as an offence, it's a compliment - you're an admirable fellow). Some of us have to expend our willpower on more immediate problems/flaws and don't have so much left over for perfecting our diet by eliminating common foods like fruit and butter.


The worst stuff for anyone is the refined stuff, including sugar. Fruit makes you healthier whereas refined sugar knocks down the immune system making illness more likely.

Still, a little now and then is a lot better than going overboard and eating a pound of it.... I broke down and had a soft ice cream the other day (choc & vanilla... oh baby!)



Wolfheart
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14 Jul 2012, 12:00 am

edgewaters wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.


Yeah but Wolf ... you're much closer to perfection than most people (don't take that as an offence, it's a compliment - you're an admirable fellow). Some of us have to expend our willpower on more immediate problems/flaws and don't have so much left over for perfecting our diet by eliminating common foods like fruit and butter.


Thank you, I understand that. It does require a certain amount of discipline to keep a healthy diet but it is in times when we feel most troubled or stressed that we end up eating unhealthily when we should really be eating healthy. For instance, someone that is having an anxious period shouldn't be eating tons of fruit, butter or chocolate, they should be eating calming foods such as pasta or brown rice.



hyperlexian
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14 Jul 2012, 12:14 am

Wolfheart wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.


Yeah but Wolf ... you're much closer to perfection than most people (don't take that as an offence, it's a compliment - you're an admirable fellow). Some of us have to expend our willpower on more immediate problems/flaws and don't have so much left over for perfecting our diet by eliminating common foods like fruit and butter.


Thank you, I understand that. It does require a certain amount of discipline to keep a healthy diet but it is in times when we feel most troubled or stressed that we end up eating unhealthily when we should really be eating healthy. For instance, someone that is having an anxious period shouldn't be eating tons of fruit, butter or chocolate, they should be eating calming foods such as pasta or brown rice.

not many people feel comforted from eating pasta or brown rice. it's a psychological thing for them. it's not fixed in stone, of course, but it is about as easy to change as sexual preferences can be (not gender preferences, but preferences like wanting a slim or blonde partner). if a food doesn't make a person feel good, they won't want to eat it in times of stress.

a lot of it is environmental. if a child is fed buttery cookies or fried potatoes for comfort from age 2, it is very hard to break that conditioning. if it was easy, people wouldn't be obese. have you ever been fat?


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Wolfheart
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14 Jul 2012, 12:38 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.


Yeah but Wolf ... you're much closer to perfection than most people (don't take that as an offence, it's a compliment - you're an admirable fellow). Some of us have to expend our willpower on more immediate problems/flaws and don't have so much left over for perfecting our diet by eliminating common foods like fruit and butter.


Thank you, I understand that. It does require a certain amount of discipline to keep a healthy diet but it is in times when we feel most troubled or stressed that we end up eating unhealthily when we should really be eating healthy. For instance, someone that is having an anxious period shouldn't be eating tons of fruit, butter or chocolate, they should be eating calming foods such as pasta or brown rice.

not many people feel comforted from eating pasta or brown rice. it's a psychological thing for them. it's not fixed in stone, of course, but it is about as easy to change as sexual preferences can be (not gender preferences, but preferences like wanting a slim or blonde partner). if a food doesn't make a person feel good, they won't want to eat it in times of stress.

a lot of it is environmental. if a child is fed buttery cookies or fried potatoes for comfort from age 2, it is very hard to break that conditioning. if it was easy, people wouldn't be obese. have you ever been fat?


No, I have never been fat. My point is people prefer a second of satisfaction instead of eating something that will be better for them in the long run, if you can look at it from that perspective and think about the positive benefits of the healthy food you are eating, it will make more sense. A person can re-frame their mind and that's why hypnotherapy and certain methods work for some people that need to lose weight, they also need a desire and willpower to make a change.



edgewaters
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14 Jul 2012, 1:01 am

hyperlexian wrote:
not many people feel comforted from eating pasta or brown rice.


I do actually. Well, not brown rice. But I don't eat sweets when I'm depressed (other than the sugar I put in my coffee). Things like that are for when I'm feeling hedonistic. When I'm depressed I just want to get out of it, not spend time enjoying myself (I know, there are problems with that too)



Wolfheart
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14 Jul 2012, 1:14 am

I love eating pasta and I know quite a few other people that do as well.



hyperlexian
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14 Jul 2012, 1:31 am

Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
It is possible to keep sugar levels to a minimum, I don't eat fruit or butter.


Yeah but Wolf ... you're much closer to perfection than most people (don't take that as an offence, it's a compliment - you're an admirable fellow). Some of us have to expend our willpower on more immediate problems/flaws and don't have so much left over for perfecting our diet by eliminating common foods like fruit and butter.


Thank you, I understand that. It does require a certain amount of discipline to keep a healthy diet but it is in times when we feel most troubled or stressed that we end up eating unhealthily when we should really be eating healthy. For instance, someone that is having an anxious period shouldn't be eating tons of fruit, butter or chocolate, they should be eating calming foods such as pasta or brown rice.

not many people feel comforted from eating pasta or brown rice. it's a psychological thing for them. it's not fixed in stone, of course, but it is about as easy to change as sexual preferences can be (not gender preferences, but preferences like wanting a slim or blonde partner). if a food doesn't make a person feel good, they won't want to eat it in times of stress.

a lot of it is environmental. if a child is fed buttery cookies or fried potatoes for comfort from age 2, it is very hard to break that conditioning. if it was easy, people wouldn't be obese. have you ever been fat?


No, I have never been fat. My point is people prefer a second of satisfaction instead of eating something that will be better for them in the long run, if you can look at it from that perspective and think about the positive benefits of the healthy food you are eating, it will make more sense. A person can re-frame their mind and that's why hypnotherapy and certain methods work for some people that need to lose weight, they also need a desire and willpower to make a change.

it isn't just a second of satisfaction. they feel as good from eating the "bad" foods as you do from eating the "good" foods.

people can reframe their mindset, yes. but it is very hard. i think you don't realise how hard because... if you have never been fat then it simply isn't that hard for you. an overweight or obese person's metabolism and brain are different from yours to some degree.

if you have never had a problem in your eating habits of any kind or an eating disorder (or a drug habit, or anything like that), i don't really think you can truly understand what it is like. perhaps you think they just don't have the willpower, but in fact, once a person gets fat they have to have more willpower than a skinny person to avoid eating the same foods. when you are not starting from a position of being overweight, your body and mind are not functioning in the same way.


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hyperlexian
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14 Jul 2012, 1:43 am

Quote:
Discussion
We have shown that there is a lower dopamine D2 receptor availability in the striatum of obese individuals than in normal individuals. Moreover, in the obese individuals the D2 receptor measures were negatively correlated with their BMI. The results lead to an association between low D2 receptor amounts in obese individuals or a more-severe eating disorder and higher BMI. Low levels of dopamine D2 receptors have also been reported in individuals addicted to various types of drugs including cocaine,18 alcohol,19 and opiates.20

This would suggest that a reduction in D2 receptors is associated with addictive behaviour irrespective of whether it is due to food, as in this study, or to addictive drugs as seen in substance abusers. Eating is a highly reinforcing behaviour that not only provides nutrients needed for survival, but that also induce feelings of gratification and pleasure.21 Feeding increases extracellular dopamine concentration in the nucleus acumbens,22 which is an effect believed to
contribute to the reinforcing effect of euphoria as well as that of drugs of abuse.23 Thus, one could postulate that the decrements in dopamine D2 receptors in obese individuals represent a downregulation to compensate for dopamine increases caused by chronic overstimulation from feeding. However, an alternative explanation is that individuals with low numbers of D2 receptors may be more vulnerable to addictive behaviours including compulsive food intake.24

In this respect it is noteworthy that obese individuals with a binge-eating disorder are significantly more likely to have a family history of substance abuse than those in the general population.25 It has been postulated that compulsive disorders such as drug addiction, gambling, and obesity reflect a “reward deficiency syndrome”, that is thought to be due, in part, to a reduction in dopamine D2 receptors.26 This study provides direct evidence of a deficit in dopamine D2 receptors in obese individuals. We speculate that in obese individuals decrements in D2 receptors perpetuate pathological eating as a means to compensate
for the decreased activation of reward circuits, which are modulated by dopamine.27 This study cannot discriminate if the brain changes in obese individuals are a consequence or a cause of the obesity. Further studies that assess D2 receptors measures before and after successful weight reduction interventions might help determine if the low levels are due to changes secondary to the individual’s large BMI.

http://tauruspet.med.yale.edu/staff/edm ... besity.pdf

that's right. for obese people, overeating is like a hit of cocaine. one major problem in obesity treatment is that... you can quit cocaine but you can't quit eating. so telling these people to "eat healthy" is telling them to have a tiny fractional hit of cocaine every day instead of the massive dose they are craving. not so easy.

i think people who manage to lose weight and keep it off for their whole life should be understood as anomalies with superhuman willpower.


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edgewaters
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14 Jul 2012, 4:22 am

hyperlexian wrote:
that's right. for obese people, overeating is like a hit of cocaine. one major problem in obesity treatment is that... you can quit cocaine but you can't quit eating. so telling these people to "eat healthy" is telling them to have a tiny fractional hit of cocaine every day instead of the massive dose they are craving. not so easy.

i think people who manage to lose weight and keep it off for their whole life should be understood as anomalies with superhuman willpower.


I'm sure this does not apply to all obese persons. You can gain some weight from a sedentary lifestyle with a normal diet, especially past a certain age. Not enough to put you way past your ideal BMI, but a bit over it at least.