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luvsterriers
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17 Jul 2012, 7:15 am

Question about the ending of the first book. James the tracker bites her. If Edward didn't suck out the venom from Bella, could she have turned into a vampire?? How does a human die or become a vampire? Does the vampire have to suck more blood till the heart stops?


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one-A-N
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17 Jul 2012, 9:49 am

Unless the poison is sucked out, it will spread and turn the victim into a vampire. So Bella would have become a vampire if Edward had not sucked out the venom.

Humans can die from vampire violence (e.g. broken neck) or from being drained of blood - but not from just being bitten. Vampires have a hard time, though, stopping once they bite a mortal - they just want to keep on drinking, which will drain and kill the victim. Edward was able to restrain himself out of love for Bella. Carlisle was also able to restrain himself on a number of occasions (e.g. when turning Edward, Esme, Rosalie) because of his strong ethical character.



luvsterriers
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17 Jul 2012, 9:59 am

Thanks.

About the chapter where Bella goes to the Cullen's house for the first time. Chapter 16 I think from Twilight. She sees a painting of 4 vampires. The 3 from Volturi then she laughed at the sight of the golden hair. Golden hair meaning Carlisle?

Emmett, Carlisle, Edward and Jasper all have tasted human blood. Alice, Rosalie and Esme? It doesn't explain how Rosalie killed her fiance and his friends.


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one-A-N
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18 Jul 2012, 11:04 pm

luvsterriers wrote:
Thanks.

About the chapter where Bella goes to the Cullen's house for the first time. Chapter 16 I think from Twilight. She sees a painting of 4 vampires. The 3 from Volturi then she laughed at the sight of the golden hair. Golden hair meaning Carlisle?


Yes, from memory that is Carlisle. He was certainly one of the vampires in that painting of the Volturi.

luvsterriers wrote:
Emmett, Carlisle, Edward and Jasper all have tasted human blood. Alice, Rosalie and Esme? It doesn't explain how Rosalie killed her fiance and his friends.


Emmett - yes.
Carlisle - no - never drank human blood - perfect record. (Biting is not the same thing as drinking) He is the shining moral example that the others are trying to be like.
Edward - killed (and drank from) violent offenders, thus saving (and scaring) their victims. But he turned away from that, to follow Carlisle again.
Jasper - yes.

Alice - I don't remember - her vampire history is rather vague before she met Jasper, after which they went to find the Cullens and live like Carlisle and the rest.
Rosalie - never drank human blood, but gladly killed her ex-fiance and his friends, and some bystanders (two guards protecting her ex). Her record is "nearly as good as Carlisle's" - as she brags.
Esme - not sure. She was turned and presumably tutored by Carlisle so she may not have drunk any human blood. Others might know.



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19 Jul 2012, 12:45 pm

What's strange also is what gift did Alice give Bella on her 18th birthday? I know that Alice handed her a small box which Bella cut her finger. I know that Emmett, Rosalie and Jasper bought a new stereo for the truck, Esme and Carlisle got plane tickets to visit Bella's mom in Florida, and Edward gave her a CD of songs.


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20 Jul 2012, 10:28 pm

luvsterriers wrote:
What's strange also is what gift did Alice give Bella on her 18th birthday? I know that Alice handed her a small box which Bella cut her finger. I know that Emmett, Rosalie and Jasper bought a new stereo for the truck, Esme and Carlisle got plane tickets to visit Bella's mom in Florida, and Edward gave her a CD of songs.


The CD was from both Edward and Alice: http://www.fanpop.com/spots/twilight-series/answers/show/8545/what-did-alice-give-bella-18th-birthday-everyones-present-mentioned-exept

Not sure from memory whether that was the small box. I can't say that I track all those details - I just like the sense of a small group of people who feel different to the majority, and who are not understood and not trusted by the majority. While there are huge differences, there are also a few similarities between being an Aspie in a non-autistic world, and being a vampire (or a natural potential vampire, like Bella) in a non-vampire world. "Being different" and "being hidden" - staying away from the crowds and not socialising with the "popular people" - are the sort of things I pick up on. Bella is fascinated by, and naturally drawn to, things that most people in her world recoil from: the vampireness of the Cullens. Bella discovers that she really is a vampire at heart (e.g. her comment about the Prom and locking the doors so the vampires can massacre the students - she already sees herself on the vampire's side emotionally), unlike Rosalie who resents being a vampire in many ways. In some ways, this reminds me of the journey from being unaware of AS, to discovering an affinity for AS, to finally getting diagnosed ... except that I didn't become an Aspie (or a vampire) at diagnosis, I merely had confirmation that I always had been an Aspie. But that is when I began living as an acknowledged and self-aware Aspie - I came "out", so to speak, both to myself and to other people.

I also like the vampire's semi-magical powers - incredible speed and strength, odd abilities like mind-reading, seeing the future, making others calm, etc. When I am reborn in an alternate universe, I want to be a wizard with lots of magical powers. I promise I'll use them for good, honestly.



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21 Jul 2012, 4:50 pm

Ok what about the Volturi? I thought that the residents of Volterra don't know about vampires. So Aro, Marus, Caius, the guards (Jane, Demetri, Alec, Felix, etc) they all live in that huge castle? So people think its some tourist attraction then? I know that Heidi is supposed to be a gorgeous vampire who lures people inside and thus the Volturi feed on that.


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22 Jul 2012, 1:54 am

luvsterriers wrote:
Ok what about the Volturi? I thought that the residents of Volterra don't know about vampires. So Aro, Marus, Caius, the guards (Jane, Demetri, Alec, Felix, etc) they all live in that huge castle? So people think its some tourist attraction then? I know that Heidi is supposed to be a gorgeous vampire who lures people inside and thus the Volturi feed on that.


The Volturi are first described as the nighttime patrons of the arts. I don't know if that means they mix with the township sometimes in the evenings (Volterra is a walled Medieval town, not a castle, I think). They seem to have secret passages and underground chambers that the general public never know about, as well as at least one tower, either in the town walls or just somewhere inside the town. They keep the town crime-free, for which the local police take the credit - so perhaps they kill off any local or visiting criminals as one source of food. Yes, Heidi brings in curious tourists who never leave - no idea what happens to all the drained bodies. I guess she lures them from sufficiently far away places that bereaved relatives could never find out where and how they disappeared. No one suspects Volterra, though, of harbouring mass killers, it seems. They are discrete, so the large numbers of resident vampires must be drawing food from a wide range of places. In any event, a number of the guard might be out "on patrol" in other parts of the world, clearing up "security" problems like indiscreet vampires - that would allow them to feed somewhere far removed from Volterra.

I must admit that I am a little skeptical about a busload of tourists disappearing in Europe every one or two weeks, just to feed the Volturi. Maybe the bodies are sometimes placed in apparent car crashes and other fatal accidents, so that the grieving relatives don't keep asking questions about their vanished loved ones.

As I said in an earlier post, my main attraction to this series is the psychology of being a vampire (or potential vampire like Bella) with its partial similarity to being an Aspie (being "different" and even "weird", having unusual interests, being gifted in some area, keeping one's differences hidden, not mixing with the "normal" people). I tend to suspend disbelief, where possible, in the technical aspects of the books - e.g. could any significant number of vampires exist without it being obvious from all the deaths and disappearances? As long as Stephenie Meyer's vampire world looks superficially plausible, I don't stop to ask too many questions.



luvsterriers
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22 Jul 2012, 4:28 pm

Thanks. I'm so into this series too. Bella pregnant by a vampire? Just something I haven't seen in any vampire series. I used to read the Anne Rice vampire series. With regards to phasing, how come Billy, Jacob's father can't phase? I understand that around 1936 or so that's when the treaty between Ephriam (Jacob's great grandather) and the Cullens (minus Alice and Jasper because they weren't with the coven yet) the La Push pack can change. But where did the Cullens go till 2004 when Bella arrived at Forks? I assume 2004 since her birthday is Sep 1987. So none of the La push guys can phase? So they phased when Laurent and Victoria came to Forks. So with the treaty. Say Bella is hurt really bad and dying at her house. It would be wrong for her to be turned into a vampire at her own home?


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22 Jul 2012, 11:15 pm

luvsterriers wrote:
Thanks. I'm so into this series too. Bella pregnant by a vampire? Just something I haven't seen in any vampire series. I used to read the Anne Rice vampire series.


Well, for one thing, a vampire would usually be too tempted to kill and drain a mortal lover for the lover to last long enough to be heavily pregnant. Edward is a little unusual in that he not only controlled his urges, but got over the vampire urges completely after Bella nearly died from James's attack. The serious thought of losing Bella cured him of the temptation to drink, which had been the tension all through the first book. Of course, he still noticed her aroma, but was no longer at risk of acting on it. After all, he had been able to stop draining her blood when he was getting out James's venom - very few vampires could do that (Carlisle, maybe). The Denali vampires also had learned to refrain from killing their mortal lovers - but they were female vampires, so the issue of pregnancy did not come up.

I suspect in most vampire stories, the very biting and drinking is itself subsconsciously a substitute for sex - immorally using the victim's body for one's one needs and pleasures. It certainly has sexual undertones. So it may take a story about moral vampires (the Cullens and the Denali clan) for that issue to come up. By the way, that is another interesting thing about the Twilight series: it asks the question "If you found yourself in the predicament of being a vampire, how would you live a moral life?" Carlisle was the outstanding example of that moral issue - he showed that it was possible, that a vampire could lead a morally worthwhile existence, contributing good to the world rather than killing people. And, by virtue of his vampire age (accumulated wisdom and experience) and skills, he could make a contribution that no one else could.

luvsterriers wrote:
With regards to phasing, how come Billy, Jacob's father can't phase? I understand that around 1936 or so that's when the treaty between Ephriam (Jacob's great grandather) and the Cullens (minus Alice and Jasper because they weren't with the coven yet) the La Push pack can change.


Not sure about the 1936 date, but I think the Quileutes need to be exposed to the presence of vampires in the area when the Quileutes are at a particular critical age (adolescence?). If there are no vampires around at that time in their life, they just grow up and mature like normal adults (and are unable to phase), but they still pass on the gene to their descendants. So Billy grew up in between visits from the Cullens, and missed out on developing the ability to phase. His grandfather could phase - Jacob's great grandfather - and his son can phase, but he and presumably his father did not have the need or opportunity when they were at the right age.

luvsterriers wrote:
But where did the Cullens go till 2004 when Bella arrived at Forks? I assume 2004 since her birthday is Sep 1987.


Alaska, I think, staying with the Denali clan. They did say that they had recently moved down to Forks from Alaska, didn't they? Of course, they could have been staying elsewhere too. They seem to own a number of properties around the US (and at least Esme's Island in South America), and have attended a number of universities, judging from the list of degrees Edward has. They usually have to keep moving, because they don't grow older and their stories about their ages begin to wear thin. So they move on, somewhere else, and start over again at the youngest ages they can pass for.

luvsterriers wrote:
So none of the La push guys can phase? So they phased when Laurent and Victoria came to Forks. So with the treaty. Say Bella is hurt really bad and dying at her house. It would be wrong for her to be turned into a vampire at her own home?


Not sure what you mean by "none of the La push guys can phase" - quite a number of the young guys can phase (from Sam down to Seth). The older generation (Billy, Harry, etc) cannot, because they all missed out encountering vampires while they were growing up. The presence of the Cullens, and later Laurent and Victoria, all contributed to the younger Quileutes changing. And the more vampires turn up (eg the Volturi), the more young Quileutes keep changing into wolves - down to very young boys (and one female). The old stories all show that it is young Quileutes who are changed, and it takes the presence of vampires to cause it, even though the potential is there in every generation because of their genetics.

With the treaty, I think the Quileutes hold out for nature taking its course: you don't create vampires just to stop people from dying. Remember even Jake said that he would prefer Bella dead than she become a vampire - which rather upset her, seeing she loved a vampire and wanted to become one herself.



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23 Jul 2012, 7:43 am

oh ok. But when Bella was pregnant and going into labor, Jacob said to Edward to change her. But did Edward then break the treaty when he did change Bella? It happened at the Cullens house. Simply the treaty says no vampire can harm humans. No vampire can drink human blood and no vampire can turn a human into a vampire.


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23 Jul 2012, 8:14 am

That breaking of the treaty was a plot point. At first, before knowing she was pregnant, Jacob argued with Sam about how Bella being converted into a vampire would break the treaty, and how the werewolves should be mobilized to attack the vampires, to which Sam replied that even if they were breaking the words, they weren't breaking the spirit of the treaty (protecting all humans); Bella had given her consent to be bitten, and knew all about the risks and what would happen to her, so she wasn't really being harmed. That caused Jacob to go to the Cullen's house with the intent to duel Edward, but in the end he noticed Bella was still alive, and noticed she was pregnant. Later in the book, Bella's pregnancy was what caused Sam to prepare an attack towards the Cullens, because they deemed the vampire baby as unnatural and a liability, and there Jacob had grown attached to Bella again and didn't want that, so he had to become his own Alpha to defy Sam's orders, and join the vampires, Later on, what saved the Cullens was Jacob's imprinting on Reneesme, because by ancient law a werewolf may not kill another werewolf's object of imprinting.


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25 Jul 2012, 8:16 am

I'm reading Eclipse now and I came to the chapter where Rosalie tells Bella about her painful past and how she became a vampire. Bella doesn't know the entire story at this point. Edward just told Bella that Rosalie had no one to save her and that it was similar to what happened to Bella in Port Angeles. I don't recall him ever mentioning this to Bella in the previous books. All I remember is him telling Bella that she came into the Cullen family after Esme. No mention of how she became a vampire and her past. ?


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