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Duncan
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02 Aug 2012, 6:42 pm

EstherJ wrote:
Guys, I would be responding more, but I'm in another country right now on business. I want to keep this up - this discussion is really interesting and even helpful- but my reaction time might be slow.

I will say this:
- My AS makes it really hard for me to tell if I'm reading too much into this
- I would like to make a move, but again, because I have AS, it's really, really difficult. I'm also terrified because I've never done this, and he's a friend.
- He has slowed his overtures a little since we are both not in school until August. He only does this stuff when he sees me, but he asks my friends about me a lot.

As far as saying something blatant, I don't think I could do that. I can't communicate very well verbally - I mess crap up and don't ever get my point across. I have been doing things back that he does to me. I think a problem is is that I don't have good facial expression OR voice intonation, so I can feel things and people never know.

I want him to know I like him back, but I don't want it to be blatant, and I don't know how not to be obvious. Oh gosh. At this rate I will never date someone. :oops:


Can I ask a couple of questions here.
How you responding when he shows affective towards ? eg he says "your hair is nice" and you reply "that is nice of you to say"
How are you on flirting ? Things like showing your wrists and palms....being a man I can't you details but I'm guessing the other girls can describe it better than me.



DogsWithoutHorses
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02 Aug 2012, 6:56 pm

Duncan wrote:
EstherJ wrote:
Guys, I would be responding more, but I'm in another country right now on business. I want to keep this up - this discussion is really interesting and even helpful- but my reaction time might be slow.

I will say this:
- My AS makes it really hard for me to tell if I'm reading too much into this
- I would like to make a move, but again, because I have AS, it's really, really difficult. I'm also terrified because I've never done this, and he's a friend.
- He has slowed his overtures a little since we are both not in school until August. He only does this stuff when he sees me, but he asks my friends about me a lot.

As far as saying something blatant, I don't think I could do that. I can't communicate very well verbally - I mess crap up and don't ever get my point across. I have been doing things back that he does to me. I think a problem is is that I don't have good facial expression OR voice intonation, so I can feel things and people never know.

I want him to know I like him back, but I don't want it to be blatant, and I don't know how not to be obvious. Oh gosh. At this rate I will never date someone. :oops:


Can I ask a couple of questions here.
How you responding when he shows affective towards ? eg he says "your hair is nice" and you reply "that is nice of you to say"
How are you on flirting ? Things like showing your wrists and palms....being a man I can't you details but I'm guessing the other girls can describe it better than me.


check out my sexy sexy... palms


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mv
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02 Aug 2012, 7:10 pm

rosemund wrote:
MXH wrote:
mv wrote:
And MXH, in no way did I mean to say that I felt victimized, I was trying to present a more nuanced and balanced view of the world, by introducing an example that I (and many women I know) have found. I'm not sure you understand that.


I completely understand, but im not sure you do on what i said. im explaining how youre blaming some far fetched concept that men didnt want you because you were "independent" when in reality there are many more simpler reasons why they didnt go so well with your initiative. The thing with initiative is that rejection will feel harsher than if youre the one doing the rejection. Because you wont know why you were rejected, which can lead to silly thoughts like "its because i chased him, men must be scared of being chased". In reality most guys dream of women taking initiative. You simply got a taste of the other side and didnt like it. This isnt ignoring the risks of being totally passive either, im simply addressing the active side.


Umm, no. In my case, we'd been together for several years. At first, he didn't mind if initiated things (basic or sexual), if I was what I would consider insipid about it (some call it coy). As time went on, he started saying I was too independent. That he didn't understand why I never seemed to need him, but if I did ask his opinion on things, then he told me he just wanted me to handle things and not bother him. If I didn't make plans for us, he got mad. If I did make plans for us, he got angry I didn't consult him about it, and he stated it was due to his might wanting to do something else. This is someone who never went out, and when he finally did, he hooked up with someone else because "she needs me".

Both before him, and more recently, I've had male friends tell me that guys don't ask me out, because I don't appear to need anyone. They tell me NT men ask out women who appear to need them, and I give off a "I'm fine on my own" sort of vibe.

I don't know how either (the ex or my male friends) could have been more direct, so I'm not "blaming some far fetched concept" as you state above. I was flat out told the reason was my being too independent. The problem with this is, whatever radar I had to gauge whether NT men are interested or not, has been shot to h*ll in a hand basket. I really do try not to generalize based on gender, but it's a reoccuring theme in my life.


Yes, I've had experiences in this vein, too. And so have several women I know. Anecdotal evidence, but again, I was trying to bring a broader perspective in general. I wasn't talking about rejection for other reasons (which has also happened). {shrug} Whatevs.



Kurgan
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03 Aug 2012, 2:37 pm

MXH wrote:
DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
this is purely anecdotal evidence so big grain of salt but
in my experience guys can be put off by an "aggressive" move on our part
you can certainly ask them out, but it helps if you let them think it was their idea
It's like we can take the initiative to set up the joke but they like to have the punchline.

that's all just my observations based on the small number 18-26 year olds from 3 continents that I've interacted with

My advice would be to drop hints that you're interested, casually mention movies you want to go see or exhibits or parks you want to go to, maybe even ask him something like "do you like me" or "are you flirting with me"

essentially, make your interest clear and give him oppurtunites, (if he's allistic)
he's knocked on the door with the flirty behavior, you can open it and ask him in, and then he has to decide to walk through the door


guys arent put off by agressive moves, they just werent interested to start with. Which by the way is what guys go through day in and out, and guess what? it sucks, but thats the way things are.


This.

I've never heard a guy say this about a girl: "That girl who I liked made the first move on me! Yuck!".



hyperlexian
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03 Aug 2012, 3:06 pm

EstherJ wrote:
Guys, I would be responding more, but I'm in another country right now on business. I want to keep this up - this discussion is really interesting and even helpful- but my reaction time might be slow.

I will say this:
- My AS makes it really hard for me to tell if I'm reading too much into this
- I would like to make a move, but again, because I have AS, it's really, really difficult. I'm also terrified because I've never done this, and he's a friend.
- He has slowed his overtures a little since we are both not in school until August. He only does this stuff when he sees me, but he asks my friends about me a lot.

As far as saying something blatant, I don't think I could do that. I can't communicate very well verbally - I mess crap up and don't ever get my point across. I have been doing things back that he does to me. I think a problem is is that I don't have good facial expression OR voice intonation, so I can feel things and people never know.

I want him to know I like him back, but I don't want it to be blatant, and I don't know how not to be obvious. Oh gosh. At this rate I will never date someone. :oops:

ok, so... here's a secret that you might not realise. even older adults will go ahead and ask their friends to find out if someone is interested, like: "i really think Mike is cute but i can't tell if he likes me. have you heard him mention me?" if they do not know how he feels, they will check on it because... now they are intrigued and they want a front-row seat. :lol:

yes, yes i KNOW - teenagers do that, right? well, even older adults do it, because it can spare everyone's feelings from flat-out rejection. obviously this only works if you have mutual friends, though.

barring that, you can always say something leading, like: "i really enjoy spending time with you." then if you get an equal response back without any new information, step it up a little with something like: "i miss you when you are not around." or "i look forward to our time together." BOTH genders engage in these sorts of comment because it tests the water and nudges the other person subtly to declare their feelings.

***

about women asking men out: this is my preferred way to go about things, unless there is a mutual situation (rare). but i am fairly assertive anyways, so it fits my personality for the future relationship itself. after a few rejections i did find out later they didn't like that i took the initiative, but i wouldn't say it was any sort of majority - most guys just weren't interested (and a couple were gay :oops: ).

i would not change my way of going about things because of the possibility of rejection for it, because then i am pretending to be someone i am not for the sake of social niceties. any man i date has to be open to a very upfront and assertive female who doesn't care for gender roles, so if they cannot handle it from the get-go they are not the person for me. so if i scare them off right at the outset, that works perfectly.


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NTAndrew
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03 Aug 2012, 3:15 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:
Drop big hints, big whopping hints.

For example, talk about a movie you want to see and mention you don't have anyone to go with.


I like this!



NTAndrew
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03 Aug 2012, 3:35 pm

I think he is interested. He's doing all the things I would do when I am interested in someone.

Try doing some of the behaviors he is doing to you to him, like poking him back, leaning into him (quite "accidentally" of course) and see how he responds.



edgewaters
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03 Aug 2012, 3:48 pm

rosemund wrote:
Umm, no. In my case, we'd been together for several years. At first, he didn't mind if initiated things (basic or sexual), if I was what I would consider insipid about it (some call it coy). As time went on, he started saying I was too independent. That he didn't understand why I never seemed to need him, but if I did ask his opinion on things, then he told me he just wanted me to handle things and not bother him. If I didn't make plans for us, he got mad. If I did make plans for us, he got angry I didn't consult him about it, and he stated it was due to his might wanting to do something else. This is someone who never went out


Was he an aspie? That sounds sort of familiar, I might be kinda like that. Except the "too independant" comment (I would never discourage independance, more independance means less dependance means less responsibility/decisions, plus I don't really get it in context, to me too independant would mean *not* initiating or wanting things from others enough).

I think in the early part of relationship I get to thinking we have to have sex all the time to seal the deal, but then after a while I feel like ... we only need to do this once in a very long time, like a few times a year sort of thing (although never is too long!). I have a really low drive. I think I see it more as a mutual affirmation thing than a physical demand. Also, I suck at it. :lol:

Plans to go out, I do not handle well because yeah, I don't go out, and I don't want to, unless I have to or there's some really powerful drive to do something in particular. Which usually isn't "going out" really, more like going swimming or biking or boating or something like that, never anything social. But I never say it's because I might want to do something else. That would be silly. It's blatantly obvious to anyone who knows me that I generally don't want to do anything else in particular.

Starting to think a typical relationship is just too much for me. I've got things to offer to be sure, but not enough to be someone else's whole world. I guess I'm ... too independant!