Is Joe Arpiao a Fascist? discussion and poll.

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Is Joe Arpiao a Fascist?
Of Course he is just look at his eyes. 20%  20%  [ 3 ]
Quit calling people fascists it does not help the discourse. 33%  33%  [ 5 ]
After careful consideration I will have to say yes. 27%  27%  [ 4 ]
No, because of X I will explain in a reasonable post that contain arguments. 20%  20%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 15

JakobVirgil
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06 Aug 2012, 12:18 pm

I had so much fun with the last one so here is a new one.

Joe Arpiao
Image

He is a Nationalist (his number one issue is immigration)
He is a Racist (or at least hangs out with them. J.T. Ready, Russell Pearce.)
He is Anti-liberal (just ask him)
He is Anti-modern (will not use computers)
He is Corporatist (has only arrested 5 people for hiring "illegals" but 1000s of "illegals")
He believes in a cult of action.
He is Italian.

For those not familiar with the man.
<<Sheriff Joe on Wikipedia>>

Non 'Mericans and other folks please play your outside options lend insight.
(also you have better educations and can explain stuff to us who was born in Eagleland)


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John_Browning
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06 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm

Just for starters, everyone has a #1 issue, I don't know anything about his private associates, being anti-liberal isn't necessarily a bad thing, if he doesn't want to use computers then that's his business, I'm not sure what's up about not charging businesses but that's a legally complex matter to speculate on, I'm not sure what you mean by 'cult of action', and I find it amusing that someone making accusations of racism claims being Italian is proof of fascism. :lol:

Illegal immigration is a plague and I'm glad he's trying to get the initial steps started to do something about it! He's done a pretty good job in other areas as well.


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JakobVirgil
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06 Aug 2012, 1:11 pm

John_Browning wrote:
Just for starters, everyone has a #1 issue, I don't know anything about his private associates, being anti-liberal isn't necessarily a bad thing, if he doesn't want to use computers then that's his business, I'm not sure what's up about not charging businesses but that's a legally complex matter to speculate on, I'm not sure what you mean by 'cult of action', and I find it amusing that someone making accusations of racism claims being Italian is proof of fascism. :lol:

Illegal immigration is a plague and I'm glad he's trying to get the initial steps started to do something about it! He's done a pretty good job in other areas as well.


I am glad I made you laugh.
I am very proud of the Italian line.
The question is not if the list is a list of good things but if it is a list of things that point to Fascism
a thing that I do not assume you are exactly against anyway.

Are you going to vote that Joe is a fascist?


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DiscardedWhisper
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06 Aug 2012, 1:25 pm

No, Arpaio is not a Fascist. None of the things you listed are unique to the fascist philosophy. Let me break it down for you, simply because I have nothing better to do.



Nationalism, although you use it as a synonym for jingoism, is not a unique trait of fascism. Nor is racism, though there is no real evidence that Arpaio is a racist.

Fascism is not anti-liberal or even anti-socialist and does not exist along the standard left-right political scale. Libertarians are quite anti-liberal, but are the polar opposite of Fascists. To be fair, Libertarians are usually anti-conservative as well. Or anti-any sort of government philosophy.

I assure you, the man has access to the national criminal database. He may dislike computers, but using them is part of his job.

Arpaio is a Republican, and most republicans are corporate friendly. This is really not a valid point. Especially in context to detaining illegals, which is his job as local law enforcement. Also because Fascism would put strong central government over corporate interests.

I think Arpaio's reference to a "Cult of Action" is more of a referendum on the Feds doing nothing about the problem of illegal immigration. Stating that they should talk less and do more. Honestly though, I could not find this terminology attributed to him anywhere.

Arpaio is not Italian, he is of Italian descent. That point is moot anyway since the Italian Fascist Party is defunct.


I would hope this would answer your question.



Jacoby
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06 Aug 2012, 1:35 pm

Sheriffs in general for some reason seem to be flamboyant self-promoters with autocratic tendencies. I don't know if Arpiao is particularly worse than others in that regard or if he's simply the most visible but Phoenix does have a serious problem with illegal immigration. I'm not a fan of Arpiao at all but I think a lot of issues in Maricopa County are broader than simply discriminatory treatment of Hispanics because Arpiao is a racist and more of a reflection of the national debate on what to do period with the issue of illegal immigration from Latin America. The issue is still going to be there once Arpiao is gone.



JakobVirgil
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06 Aug 2012, 2:02 pm

DiscardedWhisper wrote:

No, Arpaio is not a Fascist. None of the things you listed are unique to the fascist philosophy. Let me break it down for you, simply because I have nothing better to do.

(1) Nationalism, although you use it as a synonym for jingoism, is not a unique trait of fascism. Nor is racism, though there is no real evidence that Arpaio is a racist.

(2) Fascism is not anti-liberal or even anti-socialist and does not exist along the standard left-right political scale. Libertarians are quite anti-liberal, but are the polar opposite of Fascists. To be fair, Libertarians are usually anti-conservative as well. Or anti-any sort of government philosophy.

(3) I assure you, the man has access to the national criminal database. He may dislike computers, but using them is part of his job.

(4) Arpaio is a Republican, and most republicans are corporate friendly. This is really not a valid point. Especially in context to detaining illegals, which is his job as local law enforcement. Also because Fascism would put strong central government over corporate interests.

(5) I think Arpaio's reference to a "Cult of Action" is more of a referendum on the Feds doing nothing about the problem of illegal immigration. Stating that they should talk less and do more. Honestly though, I could not find this terminology attributed to him anywhere.

(6) Arpaio is not Italian, he is of Italian descent. That point is moot anyway since the Italian Fascist Party is defunct.


I would hope this would answer your question.


Thanks for your break down. How do you define Fascism?

1. Nationalism and racism are not exclusive to fascism but are requirements.
Fascism on wikipedia
Umberto Eco's definition of Fascism
Did I say Joe was a Jingoist?
2. Fascism is defined as anti-liberalism by Eco and also by Fascists themselves.
3. It is Joe who says he does not use computers I just took him at his word on it.
Now it looks like he has to be lying.
4. It is not Joe's job to arrest illegals those powers were taken from him by the feds in 2010.
Your thinking that a strong central authority over corporations being requisite to Fascism shows a lack of familiarity with the subject. Il Duce defined Fascism as Corporatism. We have to take him at his word.
5. This is my assertion that the rhetoric of have to do something without reflecting and the consequences of the course taken is a cult of action.
6. I was told it was a requirement by other PPR users. I disagree ask the nominalist how it works.


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Raptor
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06 Aug 2012, 5:33 pm

He is a Nationalist – So am I
He is a Racist - All nationalist are racists. Just ask any liberal.
He is Anti-liberal – Me too.
He is Anti-modern – Socially so am I about some things and I can always add more.
He is Corporatist - Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
He believes in a cult of action - Whatever that is I probably support it.
He is Italian – I’m not. I find some of them to be at least mildly annoying at times.


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thomas81
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06 Aug 2012, 5:57 pm

I think a nice pair of Jackboots would suit you Raptor.



shrox
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06 Aug 2012, 6:04 pm

He is...

A)...not reason A) I left Arizona.
B)...reason B) I left Arizona.

Reason A) for leaving Arizona is:
A) Jan Brewer.



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06 Aug 2012, 6:28 pm

thomas81 wrote:
I think a nice pair of Jackboots would suit you Raptor.


You're making an assumption that I don't already have a pair....
:D


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JakobVirgil
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06 Aug 2012, 6:42 pm

Raptor wrote:
He is a Nationalist – So am I
He is a Racist - All nationalist are racists. Just ask any liberal.
He is Anti-liberal – Me too.
He is Anti-modern – Socially so am I about some things and I can always add more.
He is Corporatist - Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
He believes in a cult of action - Whatever that is I probably support it.
He is Italian – I’m not. I find some of them to be at least mildly annoying at times.


The question at hand is not if you are a fascist or not.
[I really don't think you would mind if you were. as long as we did not call you late for dinner]

But whether or Joe is
So far 2 irrationally say yes.
3 wuss out and reject difficult discussions preferring partisanship to the search for truth.
and one checked no but forgot to post a good defense.

I have not voted yet because as a liberal I have not made up my mind. :)


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DiscardedWhisper
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06 Aug 2012, 7:34 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Raptor wrote:
He is a Nationalist – So am I
He is a Racist - All nationalist are racists. Just ask any liberal.
He is Anti-liberal – Me too.
He is Anti-modern – Socially so am I about some things and I can always add more.
He is Corporatist - Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
He believes in a cult of action - Whatever that is I probably support it.
He is Italian – I’m not. I find some of them to be at least mildly annoying at times.


The question at hand is not if you are a fascist or not.
[I really don't think you would mind if you were. as long as we did not call you late for dinner]

But whether or Joe is
So far 2 irrationally say yes.
3 wuss out and reject difficult discussions preferring partisanship to the search for truth.
and one checked no but forgot to post a good defense.

I have not voted yet because as a liberal I have not made up my mind. :)


I checked no, and what is your problem with my explanation? I can't help that you might disagree with my view on fascism, but then again I've spoken with actual Third Positionists. Modern Fascism has some differences from Classic Italian Fascism, albeit none too glaring.



JakobVirgil
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06 Aug 2012, 7:50 pm

DiscardedWhisper wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Raptor wrote:
He is a Nationalist – So am I
He is a Racist - All nationalist are racists. Just ask any liberal.
He is Anti-liberal – Me too.
He is Anti-modern – Socially so am I about some things and I can always add more.
He is Corporatist - Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
He believes in a cult of action - Whatever that is I probably support it.
He is Italian – I’m not. I find some of them to be at least mildly annoying at times.


The question at hand is not if you are a fascist or not.
[I really don't think you would mind if you were. as long as we did not call you late for dinner]

But whether or Joe is
So far 2 irrationally say yes.
3 wuss out and reject difficult discussions preferring partisanship to the search for truth.
and one checked no but forgot to post a good defense.

I have not voted yet because as a liberal I have not made up my mind. :)


I checked no, and what is your problem with my explanation? I can't help that you might disagree with my view on fascism, but then again I've spoken with actual Third Positionists. Modern Fascism has some differences from Classic Italian Fascism, albeit none too glaring.


I posted my critique of your answer. I found it unconvincing.
If you are serious show a definition of fascism and show that Joe does not qualify.
I am looking forward to hearing about a fascism that does not include corporatism
(a thing I believe can exist but others in the forum informed me I was wrong.)

1. I have no Idea of what your views on fascism are you have not presented any.
2. I have no interest in who you have spoken to unless it is published in a reputable journal.
3. Saying modern fascism is different than classic fascism is already commonly known and hence a trite statement. It is also devoid of meaning unless you tell me how they are different.

so good luck and take another go at it. :)


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DiscardedWhisper
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07 Aug 2012, 8:11 am

JakobVirgil wrote:
DiscardedWhisper wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Raptor wrote:
He is a Nationalist – So am I
He is a Racist - All nationalist are racists. Just ask any liberal.
He is Anti-liberal – Me too.
He is Anti-modern – Socially so am I about some things and I can always add more.
He is Corporatist - Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
He believes in a cult of action - Whatever that is I probably support it.
He is Italian – I’m not. I find some of them to be at least mildly annoying at times.


The question at hand is not if you are a fascist or not.
[I really don't think you would mind if you were. as long as we did not call you late for dinner]

But whether or Joe is
So far 2 irrationally say yes.
3 wuss out and reject difficult discussions preferring partisanship to the search for truth.
and one checked no but forgot to post a good defense.

I have not voted yet because as a liberal I have not made up my mind. :)


I checked no, and what is your problem with my explanation? I can't help that you might disagree with my view on fascism, but then again I've spoken with actual Third Positionists. Modern Fascism has some differences from Classic Italian Fascism, albeit none too glaring.


I posted my critique of your answer. I found it unconvincing.
If you are serious show a definition of fascism and show that Joe does not qualify.
I am looking forward to hearing about a fascism that does not include corporatism
(a thing I believe can exist but others in the forum informed me I was wrong.)

1. I have no Idea of what your views on fascism are you have not presented any.
2. I have no interest in who you have spoken to unless it is published in a reputable journal.
3. Saying modern fascism is different than classic fascism is already commonly known and hence a trite statement. It is also devoid of meaning unless you tell me how they are different.

so good luck and take another go at it. :)


Picky, picky...

Seems like you've already made up your mind that Arpaio is a fascist. So why bother asking others for their opinion?



Oodain
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07 Aug 2012, 8:17 am

DiscardedWhisper wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
DiscardedWhisper wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Raptor wrote:
He is a Nationalist – So am I
He is a Racist - All nationalist are racists. Just ask any liberal.
He is Anti-liberal – Me too.
He is Anti-modern – Socially so am I about some things and I can always add more.
He is Corporatist - Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
He believes in a cult of action - Whatever that is I probably support it.
He is Italian – I’m not. I find some of them to be at least mildly annoying at times.


The question at hand is not if you are a fascist or not.
[I really don't think you would mind if you were. as long as we did not call you late for dinner]

But whether or Joe is
So far 2 irrationally say yes.
3 wuss out and reject difficult discussions preferring partisanship to the search for truth.
and one checked no but forgot to post a good defense.

I have not voted yet because as a liberal I have not made up my mind. :)


I checked no, and what is your problem with my explanation? I can't help that you might disagree with my view on fascism, but then again I've spoken with actual Third Positionists. Modern Fascism has some differences from Classic Italian Fascism, albeit none too glaring.


I posted my critique of your answer. I found it unconvincing.
If you are serious show a definition of fascism and show that Joe does not qualify.
I am looking forward to hearing about a fascism that does not include corporatism
(a thing I believe can exist but others in the forum informed me I was wrong.)

1. I have no Idea of what your views on fascism are you have not presented any.
2. I have no interest in who you have spoken to unless it is published in a reputable journal.
3. Saying modern fascism is different than classic fascism is already commonly known and hence a trite statement. It is also devoid of meaning unless you tell me how they are different.

so good luck and take another go at it. :)


Picky, picky...

Seems like you've already made up your mind that Arpaio is a fascist. So why bother asking others for their opinion?


opinion is worthless, its the argumentation behind that can yield constructive outcomes.


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JakobVirgil
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07 Aug 2012, 8:45 am

Oodain wrote:
DiscardedWhisper wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
DiscardedWhisper wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Raptor wrote:
He is a Nationalist – So am I
He is a Racist - All nationalist are racists. Just ask any liberal.
He is Anti-liberal – Me too.
He is Anti-modern – Socially so am I about some things and I can always add more.
He is Corporatist - Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
He believes in a cult of action - Whatever that is I probably support it.
He is Italian – I’m not. I find some of them to be at least mildly annoying at times.


The question at hand is not if you are a fascist or not.
[I really don't think you would mind if you were. as long as we did not call you late for dinner]

But whether or Joe is
So far 2 irrationally say yes.
3 wuss out and reject difficult discussions preferring partisanship to the search for truth.
and one checked no but forgot to post a good defense.

I have not voted yet because as a liberal I have not made up my mind. :)


I checked no, and what is your problem with my explanation? I can't help that you might disagree with my view on fascism, but then again I've spoken with actual Third Positionists. Modern Fascism has some differences from Classic Italian Fascism, albeit none too glaring.


I posted my critique of your answer. I found it unconvincing.
If you are serious show a definition of fascism and show that Joe does not qualify.
I am looking forward to hearing about a fascism that does not include corporatism
(a thing I believe can exist but others in the forum informed me I was wrong.)

1. I have no Idea of what your views on fascism are you have not presented any.
2. I have no interest in who you have spoken to unless it is published in a reputable journal.
3. Saying modern fascism is different than classic fascism is already commonly known and hence a trite statement. It is also devoid of meaning unless you tell me how they are different.

so good luck and take another go at it. :)


Picky, picky...

Seems like you've already made up your mind that Arpaio is a fascist. So why bother asking others for their opinion?


opinion is worthless, its the argumentation behind that can yield constructive outcomes.


Thank you Oodain.

Unless we use the Fascism is Post-modernism definition.
I read a book by a lovely Dutch Christian with that thesis he had some good points
but seemed to have a agenda to tar intellectuals with the fascist brush.

what I got out of it was that Nazism/Fascism are not systems of thought or policy but the fetishization of power. More like a fashion trend that kills people than a cohesive ball of thought,


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?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/