Does existence depend on math?

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Does existence depend on math? Can existence not exist without math?

Math is a human artifact, not a cosmic reality.

ruveyn

Those who can read the language that nature is constructed in(numbers) are the interpreters of nature(mathematicians, physicists), but they don't have all the say in what it all means in the final analysis.

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I'm of the school of thought that mathematics is a tool to describe what does exist.

Changing the map won't alter the environment. But it's a good tool to navigate it.

Yes and no.

Some of the things behind mathematical equations we use to express them really need to be there of course.

but what puts the fire behind the equations, so that they aren't merely equations that exist on paper but physically shape our world? What keeps electrons in orbit? They don't have to be kept in orbit, but the forces that be stubbornly persist that we by laws and not descend into chaos.

I have two ears. Math is definitely a cosmic reality, not a human invention.

a. Creation came first.
b. Maths came much later.
: : Maths are a result of cosmic reality, not a cause.

Math is nothing more than a means to describe certain phenomena that we observe around us. Those phenomena will exist regardless of whether or not math itself does. Just like language is used as a means to communicate our thoughts and feelings...those thoughts and feelings still exist just the same in the absence of language.

Your thoughts and feelings are coded in a chemical language. So are mine, and built into me are thoughts and feelings of how to interpret your thoughts and feelings. We can construct a verbal language to understand each others thoughts, feelings, intentions, etc. But we don't need a verbal language to read the lust, unease, fright, or warmth of another. Because it is communicated, intelligently, in another language, that just is. If you were the only human being on earth, and you had no one around to interpret your emotions or ask you verbally about it, your feelings and thoughts would still have a mental, emotional, and physical language that it is scripted in, and your frustrations or joys would still be frustrations or joys, even if your only audience is the ocean, or a pile of rocks.

Nature is the same way. Math is the way we observe and measure the natural world. Even if there were none of us here to measure it with mathematics, it is coded and constructed in accordance to the laws of math. Its foundations have numerical precision that are so perfect that if they were slightly detuned or adjusted, chaos would occur and the universe would collapse. A universe constructed in a mathematical language is a universe constructed in a mathematical language… this language is what it is, even if it doesn't have us around to interpret it.

Rigged, intelligently so.

Laws of physics I'd say, not math (semantics perhaps ). And yes, if the laws of physics didn't exist, then we probably wouldn't exist (or would exist in some distorted universe or something lol). Math is just a helpful little tool to derive and explain the laws of physics.

Laws of physicals and math I'd say.

This latter part of your question is problematic. Can we say that existence exists, apart from the trivial case that existence as a concept exists? Existence just is something we take for granted because we as observers exist. If existence itself could somehow not exist, we would have a state of affairs which might be called a complete and utter blank. Nothingness. Existence may or may not require the presence (existence!) of mathematics, but it definitely requires observers.

Existence is not a property. For something to have properties it needs first exist. As we can say that people who were never born can have no rights, we can also say that objects which never existed can have no properties. The idea that absolutely nothing would exist escapes our mind. We cannot possibly say what it would be like not to exist, either personally or universally.

Congratulations, that means nothing.

Our understanding of reality is based on math. Even on the most basic of levels, we use numbers to define things (like you having two ears), but there is no such thing as the number two. Numbers are not a physical reality, just what we use to define it.

in my opinion, mathematics is a product of existence. without existence, mathematical realities would not exist.
mathematical interpretation of the universe is the hallmark of a sentient mind, and the sentient mind is a product of essential reality (existence) rather than a creator of it.