The elephant in the room. The vulnerability of autistics.

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AgentPalpatine
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08 Dec 2012, 9:09 pm

Stoek wrote:
Actually talking about the issue in short.No one seems too.


Stoek, I realize that you were typing your response out on a smartphone, but I'm not understanding what discussion you are advocating for these issues.



Sweetleaf
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08 Dec 2012, 9:16 pm

thewhitrbbit wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
To me that is the wrong attitude, the government exists to serve its people......the people cannot be a 'burden' on the government, but that is just my philosophy on that particular issue.


It's true of any situation in which resources are not infinite.


.....and I still feel the same way on that particular issue. :|


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Stoek
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08 Dec 2012, 10:42 pm

AgentPalpatine wrote:
Stoek wrote:
Actually talking about the issue in short.No one seems too.


Stoek, I realize that you were typing your response out on a smartphone, but I'm not understanding what discussion you are advocating for these issues.
Carpal tunnel actually, which is really bad today for whatever reason.

Were under threat from society as a whole. How much of a threat that cant be certain and it depends on which country you live in.


But its an issue that is often overlooked.



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08 Dec 2012, 10:47 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Stoek wrote:
We are often a large financial burden on our local governments.


To me that is the wrong attitude, the government exists to serve its people......the people cannot be a 'burden' on the government, but that is just my philosophy on that particular issue.

I generally believe something similar. However its exceptionally naive to think were sitting in a good situation.

Currently funding for autistic needs is abysmal, and with the ongoing debt crisis it is likely to get much worst. Even in canada which seems to be the most progressive and well funded county, denid a person with an autistic child immigration status to the country.

Were in a very vulnerable point, governments are offering less help and it seems this wont improve, meanwhile insuarance companies are doing damage in the back end.


To be perfectly honest were in a very tricky place on this issue alone.

However this is just the tip of the iceberg.



AgentPalpatine
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08 Dec 2012, 11:43 pm

Stoek, I believe I'm following your concept now.

One thing that can and should be done is for more individuals on the spectrum to go out and contact the local elected officials. I can't recall how many times I've read statements placeing all of the horrors of the world on indifferent governments, companies, or schools, and yet there is no recognition of the possible positive influence that reaching out to elected officials and explaining our side of the story.

Last week, ASAN was able to obtain a speaking role at the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee's hearings on Autism. Yes, the meeting turned into an extended rant on mercury and vaccines, but the fact of the matter is, that ASAN was able to obtain a speaking role on short notice. ASAN followed this up with an intereview on C-Span on December 1st. These events barely got a mention here on WP or AFF.

I'm not entirely sure how the system works up in Canada, or in the UK. I do know that blaming indifferent governments is easy, and it's scary reaching out to politicans, but ASAN has shown that it can be successfully done.



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09 Dec 2012, 12:56 am

I think what your missing is the conflicting interests.

We have some folk who are unable to function in day to day life who need support.

At the same time we have people saying were facing unjust discrimination as were functionally equal.

You gotta understand the complicated mess were under.

This might seem like an abstract thing but it is a real issue.

The government doesnt have an unlimited amount of money.

Asking for money from government will mean diverting it from somewhere else.

Disability funds, special education, welfare, employment support programs can all fall under different wings of government.

On the one end the HFAs would benefit from using a logical argument with government. If you help this group of people it will pay off keeping these people off government services.

At the other extreme, non verbals, would benefit from the tear jerker humane side. Saying their of highest priority group.

Were not the only people who need assistance, taking from one will hurt the other.



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09 Dec 2012, 2:04 am

Stoek wrote:
I generally believe something similar. However its exceptionally naive to think were sitting in a good situation.

Currently funding for autistic needs is abysmal, and with the ongoing debt crisis it is likely to get much worst. Even in canada which seems to be the most progressive and well funded county, denid a person with an autistic child immigration status to the country.

Were in a very vulnerable point, governments are offering less help and it seems this wont improve, meanwhile insuarance companies are doing damage in the back end.

To be perfectly honest were in a very tricky place on this issue alone. However this is just the tip of the iceberg.


Of course we aren't in a good situation, but trying to decide which groups of people are 'burdens' is a dangerous path to go down. So yes it would be naive to think that.


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09 Dec 2012, 10:27 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Stoek wrote:
I generally believe something similar. However its exceptionally naive to think were sitting in a good situation.

Currently funding for autistic needs is abysmal, and with the ongoing debt crisis it is likely to get much worst. Even in canada which seems to be the most progressive and well funded county, denid a person with an autistic child immigration status to the country.

Were in a very vulnerable point, governments are offering less help and it seems this wont improve, meanwhile insuarance companies are doing damage in the back end.

To be perfectly honest were in a very tricky place on this issue alone. However this is just the tip of the iceberg.


Of course we aren't in a good situation, but trying to decide which groups of people are 'burdens' is a dangerous path to go down. So yes it would be naive to think that.


It actually has to be done, its a responsibility we have.

To ignore this is burying your hand in the sand.



AgentPalpatine
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09 Dec 2012, 10:38 am

Stoek wrote:
I think what your missing is the conflicting interests.

We have some folk who are unable to function in day to day life who need support.

At the same time we have people saying were facing unjust discrimination as were functionally equal.

You gotta understand the complicated mess were under.

This might seem like an abstract thing but it is a real issue.

The government doesnt have an unlimited amount of money.

Asking for money from government will mean diverting it from somewhere else.

Disability funds, special education, welfare, employment support programs can all fall under different wings of government.

On the one end the HFAs would benefit from using a logical argument with government. If you help this group of people it will pay off keeping these people off government services.

At the other extreme, non verbals, would benefit from the tear jerker humane side. Saying their of highest priority group.

Were not the only people who need assistance, taking from one will hurt the other.


Make the arguement that you yourself are the most confortable with. Spending is determined by politics, not need. If we're not having that conversation with decision makers, someone else is having the conversation for something else.



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09 Dec 2012, 11:40 am

Stoek wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Stoek wrote:
I generally believe something similar. However its exceptionally naive to think were sitting in a good situation.

Currently funding for autistic needs is abysmal, and with the ongoing debt crisis it is likely to get much worst. Even in canada which seems to be the most progressive and well funded county, denid a person with an autistic child immigration status to the country.

Were in a very vulnerable point, governments are offering less help and it seems this wont improve, meanwhile insuarance companies are doing damage in the back end.

To be perfectly honest were in a very tricky place on this issue alone. However this is just the tip of the iceberg.


Of course we aren't in a good situation, but trying to decide which groups of people are 'burdens' is a dangerous path to go down. So yes it would be naive to think that.


It actually has to be done, its a responsibility we have.

To ignore this is burying your hand in the sand.


Alright and what ought we do with all those deemed 'a burden on the government' send them to the death camps? It doesn't have to be done......something has to be done but its not labeling certain segments of the population the government is supposed to serve in the first place as burdens and creating policies based on that.

My head is hardly buried in the sand because of this, However, if you think that sort of thing is necessary maybe it is your head that's in the sand. It will be all good and fine until they come for you.


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11 Dec 2012, 7:57 am

Stoek wrote:
Teredia wrote:
arielhawksquill wrote:
Yep. All it would take for autistic population to be decimated would be a prenatal genetic test for autism. It has already happened with Downs Syndrome. Few parents with access to first-world medical care will choose to carry autistic babies to term, so few or no autistics would be born.


Scientists in Australia are trying to make a prenatal test for autism, but not in order to abort the child, but to help bring early intervention from birth....That is their goal, and the parents of teh autistic children who are helping in the test wouldnt have it any other way. I may be able to find the link to the program on this!! actually i believe i actually posted a link to it in a post a couple of weeks back!!


Well in china theyve had the ability to tell if their kid with be male or female for years do you think its any surprise that they dont use this test for decorating the nursery.


I get your sarcasm... but Abortion is actually Illegal in several Sates of Australia, Including Queensland which is the only Australian State so far to Legalise Gay Marriage.....



Stoek
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11 Dec 2012, 1:46 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Stoek wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Stoek wrote:
I generally believe something similar. However its exceptionally naive to think were sitting in a good situation.

Currently funding for autistic needs is abysmal, and with the ongoing debt crisis it is likely to get much worst. Even in canada which seems to be the most progressive and well funded county, denid a person with an autistic child immigration status to the country.

Were in a very vulnerable point, governments are offering less help and it seems this wont improve, meanwhile insuarance companies are doing damage in the back end.

To be perfectly honest were in a very tricky place on this issue alone. However this is just the tip of the iceberg.


Of course we aren't in a good situation, but trying to decide which groups of people are 'burdens' is a dangerous path to go down. So yes it would be naive to think that.


It actually has to be done, its a responsibility we have.

To ignore this is burying your hand in the sand.


Alright and what ought we do with all those deemed 'a burden on the government' send them to the death camps? It doesn't have to be done......something has to be done but its not labeling certain segments of the population the government is supposed to serve in the first place as burdens and creating policies based on that.

My head is hardly buried in the sand because of this, However, if you think that sort of thing is necessary maybe it is your head that's in the sand. It will be all good and fine until they come for you.
If you want us to be taken seriously by government we do need to make clear decisions of what support we actually need.

This is how government works.

I currently live in a city where adults get diagnosed twice as fast as children. Considering the importance of early intervention that is a clear example of where part of the problem may lay.



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11 Dec 2012, 1:55 pm

Stoek wrote:
...realistically shouldnt more attention be paid to how we fit into society.


Absolutely! Hans Asperger himself said as much in his original papers. That sentiment, IMHO, is being forgotten. Too much emphasis is placed on teaching aspies to become more NT in nature rather than understanding who we are as we are, and figuring out how we might fit as we are.


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11 Dec 2012, 1:59 pm

MrXxx wrote:
Stoek wrote:
...realistically shouldnt more attention be paid to how we fit into society.


Absolutely! Hans Asperger himself said as much in his original papers. That sentiment, IMHO, is being forgotten. Too much emphasis is placed on teaching aspies to become more NT in nature rather than understanding who we are as we are, and figuring out how we might fit as we are.
Really though I'm happy you get that.

Social cues to me, is one of those best examples. Eye contact, and being able to guess what other people think is insane.

It's mentally intensive exercise that nt spends decades learning, and is often competitive.

I spend a lot of time listening to comics, and what I've learned is if you don't got it, don't try to fake it. Your entering a realm where the edge is constantly being pushed of what is appropiate and what is not.



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11 Dec 2012, 2:06 pm

Well, I wouldn't say learning to change and adapt is a bad thing either. Doing so has helped me a great deal. But it helps a lot to be accepted first, rather than people just insisting that we should change to suit them before we'll even be considered "acceptable."

I mean, who responds well to insistence that they change when that's the first thing people want? It works a whole lot better when people accept each other the way they are first. When that's done, people feel appreciated, and tend to change to please each other. Even aspies do! 8)


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